Rick Wakeman is someone who loves being given the chance to moan. Known for his role on the BBC programme Grumpy Old Men, he admits to complaining about anything! But even he never thought he would ever have to complain about complaining...
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It seems that, like everything else, even complaining has a price. That price can be pretty costly, especially when companies force us to call expensive numbers and keep us hanging on the line, racking up our bills. What's more, we're usually trying to sort out a problem that was their fault in the first place...
(Do you have something to say about this story? Tell us what you think by emailing us here. Don't forget to include 'Complaining costs' in the subject line. Watchdog will publish a selection of viewers' comments underneath each story, both throughout and after the programme is on air. Please remember to include your name as you would like to see it published).
The guilty numbers we're talking about are premium rate lines starting with 09 - costing up to £2.50 a minute on a mobile or £1.65 from a landline.
There are also these four business rate numbers - 0844, 0845, 0870 and 0871. Charges for these vary, but can be up to 12p a minute from a BT landline, and a whopping £2.50 a minute from a mobile.
There are lots of numbers to watch out for and it can be a complete minefield. So it's no wonder that some people have managed to end up paying out more in phone calls than the amount of money they're calling to complain about in the first place.
Susan Hughes dialled Asda's 0844 number when they failed to deliver her shopping order properly.
Susan says she had to call Asda.com twelve times to claim a refund for a broken item and a delivery that was really late. She ended up spending ages on the phone.
Ironically, Susan was only looking for a £3.90 refund but the total cost of the calls to get it was £4.
Susan says:
"If a customer has a difficulty with a company then they should be able to contact that company free of charge or at least a standard UK call rate. Because it's not the customer's fault that the company have messed up is it? It just seems like a waste of time complaining."
Steve Chivers also had to call an 0844 number when he was trying to get his internet re-installed after AOL cut him off. The problem was they'd cut off his landline phone too - so Steve had no choice but to use his mobile at 17p a minute.
Steve spent £17 and 20 hours on the phone to AOL to get his problem sorted out and is angry that he's spent lots of time and money dealing with a situation he didn't create.
According to Otelo, the telecommunications ombudsman, Steve and consumers in his situation shouldn't have to foot the bill for a company's error. After Otelo got involved, AOL had to issue a refund and compensation.
However, it's not just companies who use costly 08 numbers, the government does it too. The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) and Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) both use 08 numbers that charge you.
Yes, that is the same HMRC that made a mess of millions of our tax codes earlier this year. So it can now cost consumers a fortune to call them and ensure they rectify their own mistakes. It's certainly enough to make a Grumpy Old Man scream.
What's worse is that public sector bodies don't even have to use those numbers anymore. They can use the 03 prefix instead, which was brought in especially for public bodies and is far cheaper for the public to call.
Companies can also now switch to the 03 prefix, but many are sticking with the 08 numbers - some of the money generated can go back into their pockets after all.
The worst offending numbers are the premium rate 090 numbers. Companies certainly do make money from these - and the budget airline companies seem fond of them although they mainly use these numbers for sales, rather than complaints.
Christine D'Arcy contacted Watchdog after she booked a flight with Easyjet. When she saw it advertised cheaper elsewhere, she called them and asked to have the difference refunded - something Easyjet are happy to do.
However, when Christine called, they held her on the line for 15 minutes - on a premium rate line at 65p a minute. It cost Christine over £20 in phone calls, as the agent made a mistake and it took ages to process her refund. She even asked them to call her back so she wasn't paying for the call, but they refused.
The refund Christine got back was nearly £50 - but it cost her half that amount in calls just to get it.
Easyjet say Christine should have called their 0871 customer services number instead -but even that number costs 10p a minute.
Another budget airline, bmibaby, also makes profits from a premium rate sales line. The good news is their website gives a number which you can call to complain about their premium rate number. The bad news is - even this is a costly 0844 number!
Complaining certainly does come at a sometimes rather large price. In the words of Watchdog's very own Grumpy Old Man - Never mind free speech, whatever happened to free moans?
Aol
"Most Aol Broadband customers get free customer service calls as part of their call plan. Where this is not the case we clearly state that these calls are not free. Calls to our 0844 number are charged at a flat rate of 5p per minute from a landline, the rate from a mobile phone is likely to be more and is dictated by the mobile operator.
"Aol Broadband is committed to excellent customer service and we are constantly reviewing cases the few cases where customers are not happy so we can do better next time. In this case we have apologised to Mr Chivers and offered to reimburse him for the cost of calls made from his mobile phone."
ASDA
"We moved to a new telephone system over five years ago based on local call rates, for some months now we've had a project team looking at how we move back to offering all our customers the opportunity to ring us with feedback, good or bad, on a free phone number.
We're pleased to tell you as of January 2011 we will be launching a "Never Pay To Complain" programme, which means customers will not be charged for using the main customer service lines. Mrs Hughes has also received a full refund.
EASYJET
Easyjet told us the average call to their customer service line costs 62p. This was the number they say our interviewee Christine D'Arcy should have called. But they're willing to refund the £21.16 she spent as a goodwill gesture.
An HMRC Spokesman said:
On the cost of calls
"HMRC receives no revenue through its use of 0845 numbers.
"The cost of calling HMRC is dependent on several factors. Calls are charged to the customer based on the tariff arrangements they have with their service provider, the device they use for the call and the location from which they call."
On 0845 numbers:
"HMRC recognise that the cost of calling its 0845 helplines can be an issue for some customers and has commenced a review of its numbering strategy. The review is looking at a range of short and long term options that will examine these issues, particularly around call charges for those customers from disadvantaged groups and/or those who use mobile phones.
"HMRC will consult informally with interested parties and stakeholders to inform its strategy. The review will be concluded during the current financial year and any changes will need to balance the costs to the customer against the cost to HMRC and the likely impact on service levels."
The Department for Work and Pensions:
The Department uses 0845 telephone numbers when customers call for other reasons, and these are calls that typically take less time to resolve. DWP strives to achieve the right balance between meeting customer needs and using taxpayers' money effectively.
These calls are charged at the standard rate for landlines and mobile phones, although costs can vary from different operators and contracts. DWP does not use premium rate numbers nor does it receive any revenue from the use of these 0845 numbers. Where a customer raises a concern over the cost of the call or asks, we will offer to call them back.
Pay to protest? Thats hard to digest...
In order to see this content you need to have both Javascript enabled and Flash installed. Visit BBC Webwise for full instructions. If you're reading via RSS, you'll need to visit the blog to access this content.
It seems that, like everything else, even complaining has a price. That price can be pretty costly, especially when companies force us to call expensive numbers and keep us hanging on the line, racking up our bills. What's more, we're usually trying to sort out a problem that was their fault in the first place...
(Do you have something to say about this story? Tell us what you think by emailing us here. Don't forget to include 'Complaining costs' in the subject line. Watchdog will publish a selection of viewers' comments underneath each story, both throughout and after the programme is on air. Please remember to include your name as you would like to see it published).
The guilty numbers we're talking about are premium rate lines starting with 09 - costing up to £2.50 a minute on a mobile or £1.65 from a landline.
There are also these four business rate numbers - 0844, 0845, 0870 and 0871. Charges for these vary, but can be up to 12p a minute from a BT landline, and a whopping £2.50 a minute from a mobile.
There are lots of numbers to watch out for and it can be a complete minefield. So it's no wonder that some people have managed to end up paying out more in phone calls than the amount of money they're calling to complain about in the first place.
Susan Hughes dialled Asda's 0844 number when they failed to deliver her shopping order properly.
Susan says she had to call Asda.com twelve times to claim a refund for a broken item and a delivery that was really late. She ended up spending ages on the phone.
Ironically, Susan was only looking for a £3.90 refund but the total cost of the calls to get it was £4.
Susan says:
"If a customer has a difficulty with a company then they should be able to contact that company free of charge or at least a standard UK call rate. Because it's not the customer's fault that the company have messed up is it? It just seems like a waste of time complaining."
Steve Chivers also had to call an 0844 number when he was trying to get his internet re-installed after AOL cut him off. The problem was they'd cut off his landline phone too - so Steve had no choice but to use his mobile at 17p a minute.
Steve spent £17 and 20 hours on the phone to AOL to get his problem sorted out and is angry that he's spent lots of time and money dealing with a situation he didn't create.
According to Otelo, the telecommunications ombudsman, Steve and consumers in his situation shouldn't have to foot the bill for a company's error. After Otelo got involved, AOL had to issue a refund and compensation.
However, it's not just companies who use costly 08 numbers, the government does it too. The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) and Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) both use 08 numbers that charge you.
Yes, that is the same HMRC that made a mess of millions of our tax codes earlier this year. So it can now cost consumers a fortune to call them and ensure they rectify their own mistakes. It's certainly enough to make a Grumpy Old Man scream.
What's worse is that public sector bodies don't even have to use those numbers anymore. They can use the 03 prefix instead, which was brought in especially for public bodies and is far cheaper for the public to call.
Companies can also now switch to the 03 prefix, but many are sticking with the 08 numbers - some of the money generated can go back into their pockets after all.
The worst offending numbers are the premium rate 090 numbers. Companies certainly do make money from these - and the budget airline companies seem fond of them although they mainly use these numbers for sales, rather than complaints.
Christine D'Arcy contacted Watchdog after she booked a flight with Easyjet. When she saw it advertised cheaper elsewhere, she called them and asked to have the difference refunded - something Easyjet are happy to do.
However, when Christine called, they held her on the line for 15 minutes - on a premium rate line at 65p a minute. It cost Christine over £20 in phone calls, as the agent made a mistake and it took ages to process her refund. She even asked them to call her back so she wasn't paying for the call, but they refused.
The refund Christine got back was nearly £50 - but it cost her half that amount in calls just to get it.
Easyjet say Christine should have called their 0871 customer services number instead -but even that number costs 10p a minute.
Another budget airline, bmibaby, also makes profits from a premium rate sales line. The good news is their website gives a number which you can call to complain about their premium rate number. The bad news is - even this is a costly 0844 number!
Complaining certainly does come at a sometimes rather large price. In the words of Watchdog's very own Grumpy Old Man - Never mind free speech, whatever happened to free moans?
Aol
"Most Aol Broadband customers get free customer service calls as part of their call plan. Where this is not the case we clearly state that these calls are not free. Calls to our 0844 number are charged at a flat rate of 5p per minute from a landline, the rate from a mobile phone is likely to be more and is dictated by the mobile operator.
"Aol Broadband is committed to excellent customer service and we are constantly reviewing cases the few cases where customers are not happy so we can do better next time. In this case we have apologised to Mr Chivers and offered to reimburse him for the cost of calls made from his mobile phone."
ASDA
"We moved to a new telephone system over five years ago based on local call rates, for some months now we've had a project team looking at how we move back to offering all our customers the opportunity to ring us with feedback, good or bad, on a free phone number.
We're pleased to tell you as of January 2011 we will be launching a "Never Pay To Complain" programme, which means customers will not be charged for using the main customer service lines. Mrs Hughes has also received a full refund.
EASYJET
Easyjet told us the average call to their customer service line costs 62p. This was the number they say our interviewee Christine D'Arcy should have called. But they're willing to refund the £21.16 she spent as a goodwill gesture.
An HMRC Spokesman said:
On the cost of calls
"HMRC receives no revenue through its use of 0845 numbers.
"The cost of calling HMRC is dependent on several factors. Calls are charged to the customer based on the tariff arrangements they have with their service provider, the device they use for the call and the location from which they call."
On 0845 numbers:
"HMRC recognise that the cost of calling its 0845 helplines can be an issue for some customers and has commenced a review of its numbering strategy. The review is looking at a range of short and long term options that will examine these issues, particularly around call charges for those customers from disadvantaged groups and/or those who use mobile phones.
"HMRC will consult informally with interested parties and stakeholders to inform its strategy. The review will be concluded during the current financial year and any changes will need to balance the costs to the customer against the cost to HMRC and the likely impact on service levels."
The Department for Work and Pensions:
The Department uses 0845 telephone numbers when customers call for other reasons, and these are calls that typically take less time to resolve. DWP strives to achieve the right balance between meeting customer needs and using taxpayers' money effectively.
These calls are charged at the standard rate for landlines and mobile phones, although costs can vary from different operators and contracts. DWP does not use premium rate numbers nor does it receive any revenue from the use of these 0845 numbers. Where a customer raises a concern over the cost of the call or asks, we will offer to call them back.
Pay to protest? Thats hard to digest...