Have you ever made an honest mistake when dealing with a company? Clicked the wrong button while booking on the internet, not fully read the terms and conditions or typed out a wrong letter in your name?
They're common problems and often easy to put right, but sometimes the companies we're dealing with will charge big for little errors...
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(Do you have something to say about this story? Tell us what you think by emailing us here. Don't forget to include 'Cost of mistakes' in the subject line. Watchdog will publish a selection of viewers' comments underneath each story, both throughout and after the programme is on air. Please remember to include your name as you would like to see it published).
Natalie Franks and her husband went to London on a day trip to celebrate the news that a friend had recently gained British citizenship. Natalie had bought two 'Advance' train tickets for the excursion. But Natalie had not realised her tickets were only valid for specific trains and caught the wrong train home.
"When the conductor came round she told us that our tickets weren't valid for that train, we completely understood that we'd made the mistake, it was a genuine mistake and that we'd have to buy new tickets."
But rather than deducting the price of their Advance tickets from the price of the replacement tickets, they were hit with a charge of £157. An honest mistake by Natalie, but she was forced to pay a heavy price.
Vish Patel is another one caught out by an honest mistake. Vish, a student doctor, bought a 16-25 Railcard so he could get a reduced price ticket to a medical conference in Manchester. However, sometime after buying the Railcard and boarding the Virgin Train to Manchester the next day, he lost his Railcard.
"The ticket collector came round and at that point I realised I'd misplaced my young person's card somewhere between leaving home and getting on the train.
"The ticket inspector gave me the option of buying a new full fare ticket for I think £131, which I didn't have and couldn't afford, or to take an Unpaid Fare Notice which he said I'd be able to appeal later."
In the end, Vish had to take two Unpaid Fare Notices, one for both legs of the journey as he was unable to buy a new Railcard in Manchester. Vish though -confident that he had proof of owning a 16-25 Railcard - appealed the fines.
But Virgin Trains didn't agree with Vish and he had to cough up the £292 on top of the tickets he had bought. Virgin Trains have since offered £146 in travel vouchers as a goodwill gesture.
These are mistakes while travelling but what happens when you make a mistake before you're due to travel? Richard Golebiowski booked a family holiday to celebrate his wedding anniversary and the 21st birthday of his twin daughters. While booking, he failed to spot a spelling mistake in his name. The single letter error meant he had to cancel and rebook his British Airways flights to South Africa. As a loyal BA customer he felt particularly aggrieved, the extra charge for the one letter name change had stung Richard for over a thousand pounds.
"Absolutely dumbstruck. [I was] so annoyed that there was no leeway there with British Airways to get the charges reduced or to have anything done but to have new tickets issued."
Statement from East Midlands Trains
"We carry more than 20 million passengers a year and we work hard to help our customers access our services, answer any questions they have about their travel, and help them when they encounter any problems.
"In this case, the rail travel was purchased from thetrainline.com. The customers selected a cheaper ticket valid for travel only on a specific train rather than a more expensive ticket available which would have provided the flexibility of travelling on any service on that route. The customers agreed to the terms and conditions of travel when making their payment to thetrainline.com.
"Mr and Mrs Franks chose to board a different train in the full knowledge that the advance ticket they had bought would not be valid for that particular train, and were then required to buy a new ticket for their journey. This is no different to what would happen on any airline. People travelling on a flight understand that their ticket is valid for a specific flight and know that if they miss that flight, they would need to buy a new ticket. The cheaper priced advance purchase train tickets carry similar conditions, and the rail industry has offered tickets on this basis for the past 20 years. It is nothing new.
"As is the case on many other UK train services, passengers who wait to buy a ticket on board the train only have access to the full-priced fares. We widely publicise this fact at our stations and on our website. Our on train announcements also provide a reminder about which tickets are valid on any particular train service.
"As in many areas of life, it can be extremely difficult to differentiate between deliberate fraud and a genuine mistake. For that reason, responsibility for ensuring compliance with terms and conditions must lie with the customer. All train operators have a duty to ensure that everyone using the rail network has a valid ticket for travel. This is no different to the steps taken by the BBC to ensure people using televisions have a valid TV licence.
"This firm but fair approach is taken on the whole UK rail network and is helping stamp out the serious issue of deliberate fare evasion, which is currently estimated to cost taxpayers £200 million a year."
Statement from Virgin Trains
1. Does Virgin Trains believe it is reasonable and fair to charge Mr Patel the Unpaid
Fare Notice when he has proved he owns a valid Railcard applicable to the tickets
he bought and presented on inspection?
The 16-25 Railcard is a national product, marketed by the Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) on behalf of the train companies, who set the terms and conditions collectively. These include: "You must carry your Railcard with you on your journey and when asked by rail staff, you must show a valid ticket and valid Railcard. If you fail to do so, you will be required to pay the full price Standard Single fare for your journey as if no ticket was purchased before starting the journey and in some cases a Penalty Fare."
The requirement to carry a valid Railcard when travelling is to prove eligibility for the discount and protect against the fraudulent use of discounted tickets. Staff do not have a central database to verify a customer's identity and Railcard ownership and so the onus is on the customer to ensure they are carrying their valid Railcard with them when they travel.
2. Does Virgin Trains agree that dropping the fine under these circumstances is the
common sense action to take?
No. We have offered Mr Patel £146 worth of rail travel vouchers as a gesture of goodwill, although this goes against the terms and conditions of the use of the Railcard. The industry standard National Rail Conditions of Carriage set out the requirement to travel with a valid ticket. Mr Patel was not in possession of a valid ticket and was therefore liable to pay the full fare for that journey.
3. If Mr Patel had raised the issue of his lost 16-25 Railcard before boarding the
train on his return journey would Virgin Trains have waived their terms and
conditions and allowed him to travel without his Railcard?
As stated above, the requirement for the Railcard to be carried at the time of the journey in order to validate the ticket is clearly set out in the terms and conditions of issue.
If Mr Patel had gone to the ticket office before his return journey, which would have been the appropriate course of action,. a number of options would have been open to him: He could have bought a new Railcard for £26 and travelled on his discounted ticket; he could have paid the difference in fare to upgrade his ticket to a non-discounted one; or, if he had the Railcard receipt with him, he could have obtained a replacement Railcard for a £5 administration fee.
It is surprising that Mr Patel attempted to use the ticket for his return journey, again without the necessary Railcard. He clearly knew at that point that he did not have his Railcard and, given his experience on the outward journey, that he was liable to purchase a fresh ticket. Mr Patel has a responsibility to ensure he abides by these conditions or to make contact with a member of staff before commencing his journey.
4. Does Virgin Trains believe it is fair to issue Mr Patel with train vouchers rather
than the money he says he cannot afford to lose?
The terms and conditions of the Railcard are clear and the travel vouchers were a gesture of goodwill, not a refund for the Unpaid Fare Notice. Nevertheless, we are happy to amend the offer of travel vouchers to that of a cheque for £146.
British Airways response
Customers that book directly with British Airways can make minor corrections, such as spelling mistakes, to their booking for a service fee of £30, provided they can show a document, for example a passport, to clarify the issue.
On this occasion, the customer booked their holiday with Thomas Cook so the responsibility to make any changes lies with the travel agent who sold the ticket to the customer.
It is essential that customers check confirmation details of their booking as soon as possible. If there are any mistakes you should contact whoever made the booking.
We would like to apologise to Mr and Mrs Golebiowski if our previous correspondence did not address this matter fully.
Watchdog viewers' responses:
I have little sympathy with the East Midlands train passengers. If you get the cheap advance tickets, you do it on the basis that you have little if any flexibility over which train you go on. I have bought tickets for trains outside peak hours and had to wait until my train to go home. If the woman wanted the advantage of a cheap day out to London (£16!), she should have checked the times. No sympathy from me, I'm afraid.
Keith Reynolds, Northants
In 2005 we went to London from derby in EM trains 1st class. We had a loyalty card (More card) we left the card at home by accident but terms and conditions stated at the time that if you had the card number you were fine (we had the number).
On the train we realised we didn't have the card but the conductor refused the number. We had to pay over£200 more for return tickets!! We couldn't get off the train as there were no stops.
We wrote to east midlands trains after but were totally refused a refund. It completely ruined our day as I was going to try a wedding dress on that I had hunted down and I didn't do that in the end as I was so upset. Also we were going to the confetti wedding shop to buy stuff but instead spent the day in parks and gardens in London as we had spent up on new train tickets!!!
Amanda Silo
Charging big for little errors...
They're common problems and often easy to put right, but sometimes the companies we're dealing with will charge big for little errors...
In order to see this content you need to have both Javascript enabled and Flash installed. Visit BBC Webwise for full instructions. If you're reading via RSS, you'll need to visit the blog to access this content.
(Do you have something to say about this story? Tell us what you think by emailing us here. Don't forget to include 'Cost of mistakes' in the subject line. Watchdog will publish a selection of viewers' comments underneath each story, both throughout and after the programme is on air. Please remember to include your name as you would like to see it published).
Natalie Franks and her husband went to London on a day trip to celebrate the news that a friend had recently gained British citizenship. Natalie had bought two 'Advance' train tickets for the excursion. But Natalie had not realised her tickets were only valid for specific trains and caught the wrong train home.
"When the conductor came round she told us that our tickets weren't valid for that train, we completely understood that we'd made the mistake, it was a genuine mistake and that we'd have to buy new tickets."
But rather than deducting the price of their Advance tickets from the price of the replacement tickets, they were hit with a charge of £157. An honest mistake by Natalie, but she was forced to pay a heavy price.
Vish Patel is another one caught out by an honest mistake. Vish, a student doctor, bought a 16-25 Railcard so he could get a reduced price ticket to a medical conference in Manchester. However, sometime after buying the Railcard and boarding the Virgin Train to Manchester the next day, he lost his Railcard.
"The ticket collector came round and at that point I realised I'd misplaced my young person's card somewhere between leaving home and getting on the train.
"The ticket inspector gave me the option of buying a new full fare ticket for I think £131, which I didn't have and couldn't afford, or to take an Unpaid Fare Notice which he said I'd be able to appeal later."
In the end, Vish had to take two Unpaid Fare Notices, one for both legs of the journey as he was unable to buy a new Railcard in Manchester. Vish though -confident that he had proof of owning a 16-25 Railcard - appealed the fines.
But Virgin Trains didn't agree with Vish and he had to cough up the £292 on top of the tickets he had bought. Virgin Trains have since offered £146 in travel vouchers as a goodwill gesture.
These are mistakes while travelling but what happens when you make a mistake before you're due to travel? Richard Golebiowski booked a family holiday to celebrate his wedding anniversary and the 21st birthday of his twin daughters. While booking, he failed to spot a spelling mistake in his name. The single letter error meant he had to cancel and rebook his British Airways flights to South Africa. As a loyal BA customer he felt particularly aggrieved, the extra charge for the one letter name change had stung Richard for over a thousand pounds.
"Absolutely dumbstruck. [I was] so annoyed that there was no leeway there with British Airways to get the charges reduced or to have anything done but to have new tickets issued."
Statement from East Midlands Trains
"We carry more than 20 million passengers a year and we work hard to help our customers access our services, answer any questions they have about their travel, and help them when they encounter any problems.
"In this case, the rail travel was purchased from thetrainline.com. The customers selected a cheaper ticket valid for travel only on a specific train rather than a more expensive ticket available which would have provided the flexibility of travelling on any service on that route. The customers agreed to the terms and conditions of travel when making their payment to thetrainline.com.
"Mr and Mrs Franks chose to board a different train in the full knowledge that the advance ticket they had bought would not be valid for that particular train, and were then required to buy a new ticket for their journey. This is no different to what would happen on any airline. People travelling on a flight understand that their ticket is valid for a specific flight and know that if they miss that flight, they would need to buy a new ticket. The cheaper priced advance purchase train tickets carry similar conditions, and the rail industry has offered tickets on this basis for the past 20 years. It is nothing new.
"As is the case on many other UK train services, passengers who wait to buy a ticket on board the train only have access to the full-priced fares. We widely publicise this fact at our stations and on our website. Our on train announcements also provide a reminder about which tickets are valid on any particular train service.
"As in many areas of life, it can be extremely difficult to differentiate between deliberate fraud and a genuine mistake. For that reason, responsibility for ensuring compliance with terms and conditions must lie with the customer. All train operators have a duty to ensure that everyone using the rail network has a valid ticket for travel. This is no different to the steps taken by the BBC to ensure people using televisions have a valid TV licence.
"This firm but fair approach is taken on the whole UK rail network and is helping stamp out the serious issue of deliberate fare evasion, which is currently estimated to cost taxpayers £200 million a year."
Statement from Virgin Trains
1. Does Virgin Trains believe it is reasonable and fair to charge Mr Patel the Unpaid
Fare Notice when he has proved he owns a valid Railcard applicable to the tickets
he bought and presented on inspection?
The 16-25 Railcard is a national product, marketed by the Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) on behalf of the train companies, who set the terms and conditions collectively. These include: "You must carry your Railcard with you on your journey and when asked by rail staff, you must show a valid ticket and valid Railcard. If you fail to do so, you will be required to pay the full price Standard Single fare for your journey as if no ticket was purchased before starting the journey and in some cases a Penalty Fare."
The requirement to carry a valid Railcard when travelling is to prove eligibility for the discount and protect against the fraudulent use of discounted tickets. Staff do not have a central database to verify a customer's identity and Railcard ownership and so the onus is on the customer to ensure they are carrying their valid Railcard with them when they travel.
2. Does Virgin Trains agree that dropping the fine under these circumstances is the
common sense action to take?
No. We have offered Mr Patel £146 worth of rail travel vouchers as a gesture of goodwill, although this goes against the terms and conditions of the use of the Railcard. The industry standard National Rail Conditions of Carriage set out the requirement to travel with a valid ticket. Mr Patel was not in possession of a valid ticket and was therefore liable to pay the full fare for that journey.
3. If Mr Patel had raised the issue of his lost 16-25 Railcard before boarding the
train on his return journey would Virgin Trains have waived their terms and
conditions and allowed him to travel without his Railcard?
As stated above, the requirement for the Railcard to be carried at the time of the journey in order to validate the ticket is clearly set out in the terms and conditions of issue.
If Mr Patel had gone to the ticket office before his return journey, which would have been the appropriate course of action,. a number of options would have been open to him: He could have bought a new Railcard for £26 and travelled on his discounted ticket; he could have paid the difference in fare to upgrade his ticket to a non-discounted one; or, if he had the Railcard receipt with him, he could have obtained a replacement Railcard for a £5 administration fee.
It is surprising that Mr Patel attempted to use the ticket for his return journey, again without the necessary Railcard. He clearly knew at that point that he did not have his Railcard and, given his experience on the outward journey, that he was liable to purchase a fresh ticket. Mr Patel has a responsibility to ensure he abides by these conditions or to make contact with a member of staff before commencing his journey.
4. Does Virgin Trains believe it is fair to issue Mr Patel with train vouchers rather
than the money he says he cannot afford to lose?
The terms and conditions of the Railcard are clear and the travel vouchers were a gesture of goodwill, not a refund for the Unpaid Fare Notice. Nevertheless, we are happy to amend the offer of travel vouchers to that of a cheque for £146.
British Airways response
Customers that book directly with British Airways can make minor corrections, such as spelling mistakes, to their booking for a service fee of £30, provided they can show a document, for example a passport, to clarify the issue.
On this occasion, the customer booked their holiday with Thomas Cook so the responsibility to make any changes lies with the travel agent who sold the ticket to the customer.
It is essential that customers check confirmation details of their booking as soon as possible. If there are any mistakes you should contact whoever made the booking.
We would like to apologise to Mr and Mrs Golebiowski if our previous correspondence did not address this matter fully.
Watchdog viewers' responses:
I have little sympathy with the East Midlands train passengers. If you get the cheap advance tickets, you do it on the basis that you have little if any flexibility over which train you go on. I have bought tickets for trains outside peak hours and had to wait until my train to go home. If the woman wanted the advantage of a cheap day out to London (£16!), she should have checked the times. No sympathy from me, I'm afraid.
Keith Reynolds, Northants
In 2005 we went to London from derby in EM trains 1st class. We had a loyalty card (More card) we left the card at home by accident but terms and conditions stated at the time that if you had the card number you were fine (we had the number).
On the train we realised we didn't have the card but the conductor refused the number. We had to pay over£200 more for return tickets!! We couldn't get off the train as there were no stops.
We wrote to east midlands trains after but were totally refused a refund. It completely ruined our day as I was going to try a wedding dress on that I had hunted down and I didn't do that in the end as I was so upset. Also we were going to the confetti wedding shop to buy stuff but instead spent the day in parks and gardens in London as we had spent up on new train tickets!!!
Amanda Silo
Charging big for little errors...