faulty sofa from Thomas Lloyd

surreymum

New Member
Mar 11, 2013
5
0
0
I need some advice on my rights regarding a faulty piece of furniture forming part of an internet order of three leather Chesterfield items purchased from Thomas Lloyd Mail Order Ltd. The purchase was made on my credit card

The order confirmation came through by post as expected and I was duly contacted to advise me that my furniture would be delivered on the evening of Tuesday March 5. The furniture was delivered and appeared to be fine in artificial light however next morning ( 6 March)when looking carefully at one of the sofas I noticed a problem with the stitching in one place on the arm of the sofa and telephoned the company immediately to report the flaw and ask what they were going to do about it. I was advised that I had to put my complaint in writing either by post or email.

I photographed the area of damage and tried unsuccessfully to send the pictures with an email complaint on that evening but their system refused to accept the email as the photograph attachments were evidently too bulky, so after speaking again to their customer service dept the following morning (7 March 2013) I sent a first class letter which included copies of the photographs, a description of the flaws in the sofa and in that letter I stated quite clearly that I needed them to ".....collect and replace the faulty sofa as soon as possible as I consider it to be defective and am rejecting it on that basis..." The following morning their customer service team telephoned me acknowledging receipt of my letter and said that a letter was on its way explaining what was going to happen, when they could arrange to collect the faulty item etc. I have now received a letter dated 8th March which says that they intend dealing with the issue under the terms of their 2 year manufacturing guarantee and that the plan is to collect the faulty item after which they will "..inspect and undertake any remedial action as required...." There is no mention of a replacement, nor any compensation for the inconvenience of them taking it away for an unspecified period.

My point is this - my letter to Thomas Lloyd made it clear that one of the sofas supplied was less than perfect when it was delivered not that a fault had developed after I had started using it so I fail to understand how that can be a guarantee issue. Also I clearly stated in my letter that I was rejecting the faulty sofa and why, yet they seem to be saying that the plan is to take it away, look at it at their leisure, undertake "any remedial action required" and return it when it suits them leaving me with no sofa in the meantime. I expected to be offered a replacement which I assumed would be exchanged for the faulty sofa especially as this company prides itself in its advertising about offering a full 21 day from date of delivery money back guarantee if you are unsatisfied with the furntiure for any reason and I do not see why they are simply offering to take the faulty item away and fix it. The company's letter apologies for the fact that I have needed to contact them about the problem so presumably the photo evidence I have supplied was enough for them to accept that it was not perfect when it was supplied to me so I am really not comfortable with being inconvenienced by being deprived of the use of a sofa because they delivered an imperfect item which needs remedial work. This is even more frustrating as I have bought from them twice before and was very pleased with their service.

The question is can I insist on a replacement? If so, is it not reasonable to expect to keep the faulty one to sit on until the replacement is made and delivered? If I am not entitled to insist on a replacement, and I therefore decide to insist on a refund under their 21 day satisfaction or refund terms, can I simply return part of the order ie the damaged piece as I am very happy with the other pieces and naturally disposed of the furniture it was replacing beofre the delivery was due.
 

ALewis

Moderator
Nov 23, 2010
691
4
0
South Wales
Hi,
Was the one piece part of a package? Or we're they individual items whereby you could just buy one if you so wanted?

Anyway, yes you can absolutely insist on a replacement, or a refund if you so wish. And the choice is yours to make, not the companies.
If you opt for a refund, you should not continue use of the sofa as this would be an act inconsistent with the ownership of the seller (you'll have implied acceptance of the sofa) . Yet saying this, if there was no way of knowing that you've continued to use - it would be up to you to decide.

If the sofa came as a package, and you wanted a refund, the entire package would normally need to go back, however I don't see why a deal could not be made with the company ( ie, refund 1/3rd of the cost - if all 3 sofas are the same)

The company will attempt to deter you from having a replacement/refund and insist the guarantee/warranty approach, as it's cheaper for them, and they'll hope that the customer will shrivel up and back down. So don't! :D
 

surreymum

New Member
Mar 11, 2013
5
0
0
Hi
Thanks for answering. No, it was not "a suite" - there was no requirement upon me to buy a set of any kind because Thomas Lloyd market all their furniture as seperate pieces. The idea is that you decide on the style and colour etc. and then order whichever pieces you want to suit your room etc. My order was for 2 two seater Chesterfield sofas and one Chesterfield club chair and the order was placed as one transaction via their website ( ie there was one delivery charge and one credit card fee).

You order online, by post etc. ( I think you can do it over the phone too), they then write to confirm the order details, and at a later point someone from their factory telephones you to say approx. when the items will be delivered so that you can have the space cleared ready for the item (s) to arrive. They initially quote a two day delivery window and you are then contacted a day or so before those dates by the delivery team who then say you when it will come giving a 4 hour delivery timeslot).

This firm ( part of the Sofa Sofa group) advertise that they manufacture the furniture in their workshop in Wales so I really cannot see that bringing a replacement and swapping it over with the faulty one is a big issue for them - it certainly seems far easier and much less hassle than coming from South Wales to pick it up, take it back to fix it then deliver it back again to South London. Also, they do have a factory showroom where I am sure the piece could easily be sold on once they have touched it up!
 

ALewis

Moderator
Nov 23, 2010
691
4
0
South Wales
Right ok, just needed to know for the package situation.
You can certainly insist a replacement / refund, it's totally up to you :)
 

surreymum

New Member
Mar 11, 2013
5
0
0
Just to add to the info below, I have just phoned the firm and they confirmed that they are planning on collecting the item, doing anything necessary to it ( she said that they do NOT patch things up- if necessary the whole piece will be reupholstered) and then sending it back to me probably a couple of weeks later. I mentioned that this would leave me without 40% of the seating in my sitting room and that it was not a fault that had developed in use - it was there from the begining so why can they not just replace it? I was told that I had signed for the delivery and no mention was made on that delivery note of any flaws identified at that point - I said that the furniture is dark brown, it was 7pm at night and it all looked fine under artificial light and that it is unreasonable to expect anybody to go over every button on three chesterfields with a fine tooth comb whilst the delivery men were wanting to get on but I was told that this is how they work and the sofa has to go back so that if it needs re-upholstering it can be colour matched to our other pieces. I was told that I can ask for my money back on the piece and keep the other two items but that any replacement ordered later on may not necessarily match ( and this would leave me out of pocket as the original order was on a special promo AND I would need to pay a new delivery fee)
 

surreymum

New Member
Mar 11, 2013
5
0
0
Thanks again ALewis

Can you advise me on the "you signed for it as acceptible -therefore we are not going to replace it" argument -does this affect things and if not is there a specific piece of legislation to quote ?
 

ALewis

Moderator
Nov 23, 2010
691
4
0
South Wales
No. A delivery note means absolutely nothing, regardless of what it says.
A delivery note simply is you agreeing that you have received the goods. Acceptance under S.10 of SOGA clearly states that you have a reasonable opportunity to inspect the goods before you are deemed to have accepted it or until you imply acceptance.
You have clearly notified then that you are not accepting the goods.
They have no basis to the argument.
 

ThomasLloyd

New Member
Mar 18, 2013
1
0
0
We have noted our customer's comments with interest and disappointment.

Your questions upon this forum regarding your leather upholstery furniture recently delivered are answered within the Terms and Conditions available upon our website.

Whilst we accept and respect that the customer has a reasonable opportunity to examine goods following delivery, once delivery has been successfully completed, any defects or problems later reported to us are dealt with under these Terms and Conditions. If faults are not reported upon delivery, we equally have the reasonable opportunity to examine such defects and attend to such matters as appropriate. This does not affect your statutory right and all standard purchases are covered by the 21-day refund guarantee.

We regret that you are disappointed with our procedures but all items are hand made and manufactured to order. Therefore to ensure batch consistency and consistency of hand antiquing, it is not possible to offer replacements without examination.

We are also disappointed that the integrity and reputation of Thomas Lloyd has been put to question whereas we have not denied or rejected any action to resolve the matter. The option remains for the cancellation of this order if there is a lack of trust or confidence. Otherwise, we undertake to fully resolve the issues that you may have in full accordance with the company procedures. Furthermore, to protect our reputation, we do not touch up goods and dispose of them as inferior or seconds through any mediums.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ALewis

Moderator
Nov 23, 2010
691
4
0
South Wales
Thank you ThomasLloyd Agent, however can you please expand and clarify upon your position here, as I feel that you have contradicted yourself:

"Whilst we accept and respect that the customer has a reasonable opportunity to examine goods following delivery, once delivery has been successfully completed, any defects or problems later reported to us are dealt with under these Terms and Conditions. If faults are not reported upon delivery, we equally have the reasonable opportunity to examine such defects and attend to such matters as appropriate. This does not affect your statutory right and all standard purchases are covered by the 21-day refund guarantee. "

So is the customer being restricted of his/her rights contrary to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations by being bound to your T's & C's?
Or is the customer allowed to exercise their rights, as you later contradict?

Furthermore, if your T's&C's do in fact restrict statutory rights, there shall be a contravention of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, which I suggest you should alter.

Thank you
 

surreymum

New Member
Mar 11, 2013
5
0
0
Just to update anyone who may be following this thread

After further contact with the customer service team at Thomas Lloyd, I am pleased to report that the company decided to bring me a complete new set of furniture thus avoiding the possibility of a problem with any colour mismatches etc. if only part of the order had been replaced or reupholstered.

The straight swap over of three new pieces was made on Friday 12th April and meant that I had furniture to use throughout the period that the company were sorting out the problem and at no time did I have the inconvenience originally envisaged of having part of my order taken back to the factory for inspection before any repair/replacement was agreed.

Following an initial misunderstanding of the action to be taken, full marks for Thomas Lloyd for keeping me updated on the progress of the production and delivery of the replacement pieces.
 

ALewis

Moderator
Nov 23, 2010
691
4
0
South Wales
Thanks for your update,
Let's just hope they did not take action purely based on the fact that you came to a public forum for help...

Thanks
 

trainot2

New Member
Nov 24, 2013
1
0
0
We recently bought a sofa from Thomas Lloyd and straight away the castor became loose . We contacted Thomas Lloyd to ask if somebody would come and examine the sofa as we are only twenty minutes drive from factory but were told we dont do that and the sofa would be collected . After the delivery team arrived ten o clock at night the sofa was collected and we were told that the frame had collapsed by the driver . The next day we contacted Thomas Lloyd and ask could we get a full refund on the suite as we were not happy with our purchase but were told by a very rude woman that the twenty one days had passed and they want be giving any refund because we dont do that and it will be sorted . The question i have is was the furniture fit for the purpose or was it just some reject as how could it fail so soon . Any advice you can giveme would be much appreciated as Thomas Lloyd staff are very rude and dont seem that bothered .
 

Witch consumer

Moderator
Sep 8, 2008
1,593
3
0
Debtors retreat
If a fault occurs within 6 Months It is assumed it existed from new and the Customer entitled to a refund or replacement , they know this but You may need to remind them to Check the Sale of Goods Act !