Help!! Annoying online purchase problem.

john ryder

New Member
Dec 27, 2008
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I will try to keep this as brief and relevant as possible to avoid any boredom!

My wife enquired on the purchase of a 'custom designed' guitar from a site selling on Ebay, they have their own site too. She was given a price for a specif guitar and design however she had problems paying via PayPal so I contacted the company via email and informed them that I would be paying via PayPal, which I duly did on November 15th 2008, I also requested confirmation of this payment which was confirmed by a return Email that same day. A couple of days later a design was emailed and we agreed to it asking them to go ahead with the painting etc. After two weeks we had heard nothing so I emailed to chase the item on 5th December 2008 and they responded the same day stating that it would be dispatched the next morning (Sat 6th Dec) and we would receive it approximately 10th December 2008.
The packed was sent via Parcelforce 48hr and just left in our porch on 10th/11th December (no signature was given!), as this item was a Christmas gift for our 13 year old son we undid the box, removed most of the dust cover and examined the custom design and most of the guitar where, at that time there was no noticable evidence on the exterior or interior of the package that would indicate any damage, we then repacked the item and gift wrapped it for christmas day when our son opened it all up and within 2 minutes noticed a large crack to the rear of the neck just below the tuning knobs. We immidiately sent an email and pictures of the damage to the company on christmas morning and received a response two days later that stated "Our returns policy states that a full refund or replacement is provided if your guitar is lost in transit, is damaged upon arrival, or is significantly different from that advertised (notification is required immediately upon receipt & item must be returned 7 days from receipt)" I was not the one who would have visited their website where the T&C's are for it was my wife who chose the goods, and neither did any email point me in the direction of any T&C's either.
The company go on to say that they "will look to opening a damages claim with Parcelforce, although please be aware this will take time". As this was a gift for our son I contacted the company via telephone who were most unhelpful and showed no compassion for the circumstances. They were adamant that Parcelforce would need to inspect the item and packaging and then state "If they confirm that the guitar sustained damage during transit then we will look to providing you with a refund or possibly providing a replacement"
Does anyone know how we stand on this predicament please??
 
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Tony

What Consumer Founder
Apr 7, 2008
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Hi John,

This is quite straightforward, the guitar belongs to them still as you have not accepted the item or taken ownership of it. Have a look at this: They say I've taken ownership so it's my responsibility | Consumer Information

Just because you sign a delivery / satisfaction note, or agree to a manufacturer’s repair, it does not mean you have accepted the goods, and are waiving your right to return them at a later date.
Their terms contradict this and are unfair and unenforceable. Unfair Contract Terms | Consumer Information

What is that name of the company?

I hope this helps

Tony
 

john ryder

New Member
Dec 27, 2008
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Thanks for the information Tony. It's real annoying this one because our son is most upset about the damage and not being able to use it plus also he has to wait for who knows how long to see what Parcelforce say and if they say that they do not believe it was damaged in 'their possession' then the company will not entertain a replacement, so they say!


Any further help/advice would be appreciated.

Regards
John
 
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GlasgowGirl

Facilitator
Jul 22, 2008
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I had a look at the article Tony linked to, and my reading of it would be that it doesn't matter what Parcelforce say - your contract is with this company, and they are responsible for the goods. The key lines in Tony's article seem to me to be,

"the law says that you must have ‘reasonable opportunity of examining the goods for the purpose of ascertaining whether they are in conformity with the contract’, "

and,

"the Sale of Goods Act now states that if a product develops a fault within the first 6 months, the assumption will be that the defect was present at the time of purchase and you should get an automatic repair or replacement."

So my interpretation would be that you haven't accepted the goods and you are therefore entitled to a refund. The company can take it up with Parcelforce if they want, but that aspect of it is not your problem.

Hopefully Tony will pop in again so he can correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Tony

What Consumer Founder
Apr 7, 2008
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Hi John,

You need to get on the phone and tell them that you have researched your consumer rights and you are not accepting it as it is damaged and you would like a replacement otherwise you are rescinding the contract. Paypal does not provide much protection for transactions outside of ebay, but it might be worth starting a dispute. The last resort is to make a small claim.

Tony
 

Tony

What Consumer Founder
Apr 7, 2008
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You must have posted at the same time as me GG, you are correct ; )

Tony
 

john ryder

New Member
Dec 27, 2008
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I really appreciate your advice guy's, just wondered if the attached communication via PayPal changes anything at all............

From Seller
27/12/2008 12:12 GMT

Our returns policy states notification needs to be provided within 7 days it has been 17days since this item was received. However a full refund or replacement shall be provided once our courier has confirmed that the item was damaged in transit.

From Seller
27/12/2008 12:14 GMT

Please note it will take longer than 2 weeks to paint a replacement guitar, if Mr Ryder is not happy with this then we will offer him a full refund once Parcelforce have confirmed the item was damaged in transit rather than in Mr Ryder's care.

From Seller
27/12/2008 12:17 GMT

Please also note the item is damaged rather than "significantly not as described" & was sent to the customer damaged, we have photographs available to evidence this.

From Seller
27/12/2008 12:36 GMT

We would also request Mr Ryder provide a telephone number so that we can contact him & so that we can file a claim with Parcelforce.

From Buyer - john ryder
27/12/2008 12:55 GMT

A telephone number was provided previously and has been provided again today. We too have photographs to indicate that the item was received in a damaged state but unfortunately not reported within the sellers unfair terms an conditions policy. The resolution time scale of two weeks is reasonable and therefore should be strictly adhered to.

From Seller
27/12/2008 13:49 GMT

The time scale is unreasonable, as we require confirmation from the courier the item was damaged in transit, upon this we are required to paint another design which takes a min. of 10 days, we are then required to varnish the guitar which takes a min. of 4 days, & finally we will then need to dispatch the guitar which will take 2-3 working days.

Please note we will not be pressured into providing a replacement & if the claim is escalated we will offer a full refund rather than a replacement in regards to this time scale.

From Buyer - john ryder
27/12/2008 13:57 GMT

The time scale requested is no more unreasonable than the companies own Terms and Conditions.

From Seller
27/12/2008 14:03 GMT

Amend to prev. response (27/12/2008 12:17 GMT):

Please also note the item is damaged rather than "significantly not as described" & was sent to the customer in perfect condition, we have photographs available to evidence this.


Thanks again in anticipation!
John
 
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john ryder

New Member
Dec 27, 2008
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Many thanks to Tony & GlasgowGirl.

ATTN: Tony & GlasgowGirl.

Just wanted to say many thanks for your advice etc, it appears we have had a result (to a degree anyway) from our communications with Guitars although I'm none too sure about their parting comments in their email! They said...

In response to this email I wish to inform you that we will now not be issuing a replacement but have in fact issued a refund.

I should remind you that it is your responsibility to check the item upon acceptance, & you have had every opportunity within the 7days to carry this out, I should also highlight that the this type of external damage is not covered in the Sales of Goods Act therefore our own legal associate who specialised in Business Law has advised us this case precedent is null and void in relation to this legislation.

In addition I should remind you that since a case has now been placed with Parcelforce you are legally obliged to keep the original packaging & guitar in your possession for their inspection, & once they have carried this out as you have been issued a refund you are obliged to return the guitar to us.


If you have any further advice them please let me know, if not then I thank you again kind Sir & Madam.

Regards, best wishes and happy New Year.
John :)
 
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Tony

What Consumer Founder
Apr 7, 2008
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Happy new year to you too I am glad it worked out for you.

They are pulling your leg when they say that the Sale of Goods Act specifically excludes external damage : )

It is the retailers responsibility to ensure that items are properly protected the shipper just takes it from a to b. For a musical instrument I would expect it to be in a hard case or a really sturdy box.

They can't specify a timeframe for acceptance.

You have to make the goods available for collection, but it is their responsibility to arrange this and pay for it. They must do this within reasonable time, if not your duty of care will expire and the item can be disposed of.

Tony
 

Tony

What Consumer Founder
Apr 7, 2008
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Just one final note for the benefit of others reading this. Goods made to the customer's specification are excluded from the seven-day cooling off period under the Distance Selling Regulations.

Tony
 

Tony

What Consumer Founder
Apr 7, 2008
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I am writing on my mobile and can't easily post links, but there is a secion on compensation. Supplier is completely liable for arranging and paying for collection of their guitar.
 

Tony

What Consumer Founder
Apr 7, 2008
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Tony

What Consumer Founder
Apr 7, 2008
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Hi John,

I was just wondering what the outcome of all this was in the end.

Tony
 

Tony

What Consumer Founder
Apr 7, 2008
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Just to be clear the 21 days refers to returns made under the distance selling regulations and cooling off periods. If the item if faulty you have to rely on common law and give the trader notice, say 14 days, that you will dispose of the item unless it is collected.

Tony