Orange breach of verbal contract - please help!

Charli008

New Member
Jul 11, 2013
10
0
0
FAO. ADAM

I'll just copy and paste the letter I have sent to them because it's easier than writing the story out again, I'd appreciate any advice though :)

I am writing in regards to a recent early upgrade that I made through you to EE. The phone call upgrade occurred on the 28th June 2013 at 09:22am. I spoke to a girl called Charlotte Burdon who helpfully arranged the upgrade for me.
It was explained to me on the phone that I would have to pay an early upgrade fee of £110.45. Whilst deciding whether to take up this offer I asked many times would that £110.45 clear my outstanding balances with orange and this was confirmed by Charlotte. I therefore upgraded believing that this would be the last payment on my orange contract. However upon checking my online banking yesterday I was shocked to see another payment the day after had left my bank account for £27.80.
Whilst setting up my EE online access to my account I was also shocked to see that my first payment for the new contract would be £44. I have a friends and family discount attached to my contracts and specifically asked Charlotte during the call if this would continue with EE. There was no mention at all in the phone call that the discount would not apply to the account for the first month. I believe my words in the call were something along the lines of “So I will pay the £110.45 now and that will clear my account with orange and then start paying £26.40 from July” and this was confirmed these payments would be what happened.
I phoned EE to question this and spoke to somebody called Robin at 09:57am on the 10th July 2013 who I found very unhelpful. I did not feel like a valued customer at all. There was no offer to look into what happened and I was told that it was the case the discount isn’t applied to the first month and he actually told me there was no body I could speak to regarding this. I also asked would it be better to phone orange to discuss this and his response was "There is no point because you’d just get passed to us anyway”.
I then later phoned back and got through to Liam who was very helpful when I said that I wanted to make a formal complaint and actually took time to hear what had happened and looked into the issue for me. However I am not happy with the outcome of just being told the person who arranged the upgrade for me will get extra training. I am disappointed that no manager would talk to me regarding this breach of a verbal contract. The money that is being taken from my account and will be during the month of July is not what I agreed to. I would have never upgraded earlier if I had fully known that these charges were there, especially as I am currently changing jobs and therefore my pattern of wage is changing. This has been very stressful and has actually caused financial worry for me since discovering this yesterday.
I would appreciate hearing what your actions will be in regards to the difference in what I agreed to be paying and what is actually leaving my bank account, as this is over £50 more than I expected. I would also like copies of the telephone correspondence that I had with orange and EE so I have evidence that I did not agree to the amounts mentioned above.
Regards,
 

ALewis

Moderator
Nov 23, 2010
691
4
0
South Wales
Hi Charli,
Whilst sending a letter is the best thing to do, the following applies:

They are in breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations, precisely Regulation 5, whereby it is prohibited to provide false information or deceive consumers.

They shall also be in breach of Regulation 3, whereby 'The general prohibition prohibits practices that contravene the requirements of professional diligence (defined as the standard of special skill and care that a trader may reasonably be expected to exercise towards consumers which is commensurate with either honest market practice in the trader's field of activity, or the general principle of good faith in the trader's field of activity).
Or materially distort the economic behaviour of the average consumer (or are likely to) with regard to the product (that is, appreciably to impair the average consumer's ability to make an informed decision thereby causing him to take a transactional decision that he would not have taken otherwise).

Both of these breaches are serious and have the potential for prosecution with a summary conviction fine up to £5000 or upon summary indictment, an unlimited fine and or imprisonment.

There is also a definite case of contract misrepresentation (under the Misrepresentation Act 1967), whereby the false statements induces you to enter the contract.
The remedy for misrepresentation can either be recession of the contract (if you choose to) or you can claim for damages - as you have suffered loss due to the misrep.


So essentially you have two options: Claim for damages or rescind the contract.

It'll be no use phoning them up, the people on the other end won't have enough brain cells to work it out, however as you've already sent a letter, await the response and if its not good enough, send them a new one and include what I've mentioned above, state the remedy you'd like, and provide a 10 day response time with the threat of legal action if they don't provide a satisfactory response.

Adam
 

Charli008

New Member
Jul 11, 2013
10
0
0
Thank you so much Adam, that's brilliant.

Will redraft the letter now and add those bits into it.

I'll keep you updated too if that's ok?
 

Charli008

New Member
Jul 11, 2013
10
0
0
FAO ADAM (again)

How does this sound? Have I worded the legal things right? Should I add more?

I am writing in regards to a recent early upgrade that I made through you to EE. The phone call upgrade occurred on the 28th June 2013 at 09:22am. I spoke to a girl called Charlotte Burdon who helpfully arranged the upgrade for me.
It was explained to me on the phone that I would have to pay an early upgrade fee of £110.45. Whilst deciding whether to take up this offer I asked many times would that £110.45 clear my outstanding balances with orange and this was confirmed by Charlotte. I therefore upgraded believing that this would be the last payment on my orange contract. However upon checking my online banking yesterday I was shocked to see another payment the day after had left my bank account for £27.80.
Whilst setting up my EE online access to my account I was also shocked to see that my first payment for the new contract would be £44. I have a friends and family discount attached to my contracts and specifically asked Charlotte during the call if this would continue with EE. There was no mention at all in the phone call that the discount would not apply to the account for the first month. I believe my words in the call were something along the lines of “So I will pay the £110.45 now and that will clear my account with orange and then start paying £26.40 from July” and this was confirmed these payments would be what happened.
I phoned EE to question this and spoke to somebody called Robin at 09:57am on the 10th July 2013 who I found very unhelpful. I did not feel like a valued customer at all. There was no offer to look into what happened and I was told that it was the case the discount isn’t applied to the first month and he actually told me there was no body I could speak to regarding this. I also asked would it be better to phone orange to discuss this and his response was "There is no point because you’d just get passed to us anyway”.
I then later phoned back and got through to Liam who was very helpful when I said that I wanted to make a formal complaint and actually took time to hear what had happened and looked into the issue for me. However I am not happy with the outcome of just being told the person who arranged the upgrade for me will get extra training. I am disappointed that no manager would talk to me regarding this breach of a verbal contract. The money that is being taken from my account and will be during the month of July is not what I agreed to. I would have never upgraded earlier if I had fully known that these charges were there, especially as I am currently changing jobs and therefore my pattern of wage is changing. This has been very stressful and has actually caused financial worry for me since discovering this yesterday.
I would appreciate hearing what your actions will be in regards to the difference in what I agreed to be paying and what is actually leaving my bank account, as this is over £50 more than I expected. I would also like copies of the telephone correspondence that I had with orange and EE so I have evidence that I did not agree to the amounts mentioned above.
I have sought initial advice regarding this and have been informed that there is a breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations, precisely Regulation 5, whereby it is prohibited to provide false information or deceive consumers and Regulation 3. As there were false statements made to me during this phone call which enticed me into the contract there is also a case for contract misrepresentation under the Misrepresentation Act 1967.
I do not wish to terminate the contract as I was initially happy with what was offered to me and I have never had any issues with orange before hence being a long term customer. I would like a response within ten working days please.
 

ALewis

Moderator
Nov 23, 2010
691
4
0
South Wales
It's no problem at all.
Just one thing, you need to state which remedy you'd like - of course if you don't want damages (monetary compensation) you can just request that the contract be put right and have your money refunded.
I'd remove where you say that you don't want to rescind the contract - they'll see that and then they'll know they can do whatever as you won't leave..

And id also change the time frame part to read 'I require a satisfactory response within 10 working days (<put date here>) else Ill have no option but to begin legal proceedings'

Please do update us, we like success stories
Adam

Edit: if we're being picky, change 'sought initial advice' to 'sought legal advice' - sounds like you mean business.
 

Charli008

New Member
Jul 11, 2013
10
0
0
It's almost been ten working days and no response, no letter or phonecall at all..annoyed!

I sent it first class so I know they had the letter quickly!

What is my next step?
 

ALewis

Moderator
Nov 23, 2010
691
4
0
South Wales
I know it sounds like a silly question, but did you provide contact details for them to reply to? (Incase they're a bit thick and can't find them on your account).
Did you send the letter to head office? Also if you sent it recorded, track it online to see if they've signed for it.

If they have received it - give head office a call, get them to verify that they've received the letter and ask them what they're going to do about it, again with the threat of legal action.

Should you have no joy, the small claims court is the place to be (you can add the court costs to the claim).
If I'm understanding correctly - they've taken £27.80(orange payment) + £17.60 (44-26.40) = £45.40 ?
 

Charli008

New Member
Jul 11, 2013
10
0
0
Yep, full letter format with my address and contract account number and a phone number!

Sent it with a first class stamp.

Yep that's right! That's the unexpected costs they took.

Thanks so much for the help
 

ALewis

Moderator
Nov 23, 2010
691
4
0
South Wales
Ok, as there's no way of tracking, you'll have to call them up and get them to admit receiving it. Take the persons name down too.
If they've not got it however, you'll have to send the letter again, but recorded (if head office can't sort it out over the phone with you - you could even read your letter out to them).

The thing is, if they say that they haven't got the letter, you have no proof to show otherwise - thus not giving them the opportunity to fix the situation before court (meaning your case my not be taken on).

If ofcourse they say they've got the letter and fail to act, you can file a claim online at: https://www.gov.uk/make-money-claim-online

Let us know what they say.
Adam
 

Witch consumer

Moderator
Sep 8, 2008
1,593
3
0
Debtors retreat
Can I just butt in on this one (although Adam is doing an excellent job a usual)

While you're arguing with them about whether or not they have received your letter, send them a Subject Access Request asking for all the data they hold on you including recorded telephone conversations, it may cost you a tenner but will give you a full account of what has gone on and what has been logged on your account, i.e. transcripts of telephone conversations but if they have a recording of the calls, they are obliged to send them to you under the Data Protection Act.
 

Charli008

New Member
Jul 11, 2013
10
0
0
Ohh thank you!

Is there a place where I can get a form or do I have to write in again?

I have asked them in the original letter to send me copies of the phone conversations - is that enough to just ask again in another letter?

Thanks for helping - new to all this!
 

Charli008

New Member
Jul 11, 2013
10
0
0
Surprise surprise they haven't had the letter! Resending tomorrow with a covering letter, requesting everything you've suggested and giving another 10 working days for a response!
 

Charli008

New Member
Jul 11, 2013
10
0
0
Thought i'd update the story!

The twitter people asked me to email a copy of my letter and now they won't tell me if they have read it!

Going to resend it with a "read receipt" attached to it and send the letter recorded delivery monday.

This is getting very frustrating now. Where would I go if they don't respond again?
 

ALewis

Moderator
Nov 23, 2010
691
4
0
South Wales
Crap customer services eh...
If they don't respond, it'll be off to the Small Claims Court (but we'll cross that bridge when/if it comes to that),
No need to stress yourself over it.
Adam
 

Charli008

New Member
Jul 11, 2013
10
0
0
And as if by magic I have a text from EE saying that they have received my email (the lady on twitter who told me to email it to her) and she's going to ring me with an outcome tomorrow!!

Adam you've been a diamond with all my rambles - thanks!
 

Charli008

New Member
Jul 11, 2013
10
0
0
Get out the banners - We have a result :)

A lovely lady from the Social Media team rang me and straight up offered me a refund of £61.60 (my account is now a minus number so that I won't pay a bill for 2.5 months - as long as I don't go over my contract!)

She did say that I was told the wrong information and they'd listened to the calls. They've also started my friends and family discount from the first month (my bill was due out today but it's just being taken out of the credited funds)

Oh and the extra money for the orange contract (£27 odd) has been refunded too!!
:)
Hope that all makes sense - to sum it up - everything is being done the right amount now!

Thanks again for all your help :)
 

ALewis

Moderator
Nov 23, 2010
691
4
0
South Wales
Oh brilliant news!
Thanks for letting us know, we like to hear about the results.
If you need anymore help with anything, you know where we are.
Adam