Visa chargeback. Please help!

SCousens

New Member
Apr 20, 2009
6
0
0
Hi there,
I am looking for some advice, as I'm in a bit of a mess with an order I placed last month. Basically, I ordered some adobe software for £398 online and the money was taken from my account 2 days later. Expected delivery date passed, and nothing had arrived, so I sent an email. No reply. Then I looked into this company and found that they are based in the US not in UK as I had thought (they have a .co.uk domain name and all prices in sterling!?!). This means that my software will be licensed for US not UK and therefore I don't want it! I emailed the company telling them this and still got no response.

Over a month had passed and still the goods hadn't arrived, so I decided to start a Visa dispute. Therefore, I was very glad the goods hadn't arrived as the chargeback could hopefully go through under "goods not received". I went to my bank today, handed over the forms to get the chargeback started, and when I got back I discovered that the software had arrived and my neighbour signed for it! Noooo! I was going to reject the delivery and continue with the chargeback!

It costs over £50 to return the goods to America so I don't want to pay for that, but I am fairly certain that the company will not cover return shipping costs, as they will only authorise returns if the goods are faulty (technically, the goods aren't faulty, just not the right region for me, and they could say I should have checked where they were being dispatched from first). I don't know whether to let the visa dispute continue under "goods not fit for purpose" or something. Also, the company lied to customs claiming that the product was a £25 game, to avoid import tax. So if I try to send it back I'm concerned that I will either have to also lie, or else pay taxes to send it abroad. Not sure on that one. The company will also try to charge me a "restocking fee", which may not be legal over here but is in the US.

I would rather keep the software to avoid incurring all those costs, but then I would never be able to upgrade the software (and upgrade's are released every couple of years) or access adobe's support. The ideal outcome would be to return the goods free of charge and get a full refund, and put this whole thing behind me!

Sorry for the very long post, it's all a bit complicated and I don't know what to do! :(
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Sarah
 

Tony

What Consumer Founder
Apr 7, 2008
18,307
3
38
Bolton
The goods you bought are not as described - you were tricked into buying something that you though was a British Product. You need to go back to Visa and explain the situation and ask them what you should do with the software, as it is effectively theirs.

Let us know what they say.

Tony

BTW what is the website, we should really warn others.
 

SCousens

New Member
Apr 20, 2009
6
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0
Hi Tony,

Thanks very much for your reply. I am expecting a call from my bank today, so I think I will just explain the situation and see what I can do. The company refuse to return my emails, so I don't think I can get a returns label from them, and if I can't start the chargeback till I've sent the item back to them I think I'm a bit stuck unless I fork out for the postage myself.

The company I ordered from are called Bite Size Deals. They have a habit of threatening legal action against forums that they think are bad mouthing them, but as I'm only describing my personal experience of shopping with them I can't see what they have to complain about!

Unfortunately they do say on the website that they are based in the US, but only right at the bottom of the "about us" page, and they don't specifically say what region the software is. So I'm worried that they might have themselves covered in regards to a "goods not as described" claim.

And as they are in the US and I am a business customer, I am not covered by distance selling regulations, etc.

They seem to have me over a barrel! I blame myself for not checking their website properly, as their Ts&Cs are ridiculous. Oh well, you live and learn!
I will see what my bank says. Otherwise, there's always ebay! ;)

Thanks again,

Sarah
 

Jorumian

Facilitator
Sep 1, 2008
347
3
0
Birkenhead
Sorry to hear about this Sarah,

I agree with Tony, you were effectively conned into thinking, in a calculated and deliberate way, that what you were getting was software aimed for the British Market. Visa should hopefully be able to sort something for you.

If for any reason you can't resolve this with Visa, it may well be worth contacting the makers of the software. Explain to them that you have a valid piece of software and your concerns. Perhaps they may be able to resolve the issue their way so that you can access the updates etc? It seems to me that you shouldn't be penalised by them too by being missold their product. It may be worth a try.

Good luck with this and I hope you get things resolved.

Ian
 

SCousens

New Member
Apr 20, 2009
6
0
0
Hi Ian,
Thanks for the suggestion, I hadn't thought of approaching Adobe. If I can't get a good result through my bank I'll definitely try that. I don't think Adobe would be too happy that a company are selling US versions of their software to UK customers, as the products are priced very differently, ie. we pay a lot more in UK than they do in the US hence why Adobe puts restrictions on using US copies over here. Hopefully they may take pity on me and help me out!

Thanks again for the advice,

Sarah

ps. Tony- I like your Mii avatar!
 

dlc

New Member
Apr 27, 2009
5
0
0
Sarah, hi!

I too appear to be entering into the same predicament as yourself. I purchased some Adobe software last week from a company purporting t be in the UK (prices in £s etc..) but actually in the US (Pasadena California...possibly?), when my other half suggested I check them out. Began reading all these horror stories online of terrible service and apparent non-deliveries etc... I tried to cancel immediately and also sent them an email cancelling the order under Distance Shipping Rules (do check this out...it could be invaluable for your case!!). We then spoke to a consumer advice body who told us that once they have taken the funds from your account they MUST give you notice of how long the delivery will take and when it will be delivered (I've received no feedback, but am the better part of a grand down!). This is a legal requirement.

Secondly we were advised that once the delivery date has passed, if goods have not been delivered then they have in effect broken 'the contract' and you can start proceedings to recoup the monies. You are probably past this stage, but it may be beneficial to know this when stating your case.

We checked the Ts & Cs and it states they will despatch in 5 working days and delivery will be made 24 hours after despatch. We await...

The plan is to simply let it take it's course over the next week-10 days. We've had an auto-reply message confirming they have received the cancellation request, but nothing more. Hopefully this auto-reply will prove significant in proving that we tried to cancel extremely quickly after the purchase was made online, and that they received the request. We've had no response via email from them and it looks increasingly likely that I have fallen foul of this 'scam'.

Please DO let me know how things go at your end....I'll keep you informed of any developments also.

Chin up...we'll get recompensed come hell or high water!

DL
 
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SCousens

New Member
Apr 20, 2009
6
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0
Hi DL,
I was in exactly the same position as you. Unfortunately I started a Visa dispute too late, and they actually sent my software before my bank could get my money back! I really hadn't been expecting it to turn up, and was so upset when it did as it scuppered my plans to claim for it not being delivered!

After a lot of thought, my husband and I decided that it was best for my sanity to just keep the software, as we will otherwise have to return it to them in America probably at our own cost before the bank could do the chargeback, then we would be put of pocket. The company would probably then try to charge a 50% restocking fee and we would have to go through it all over again! I really hate the thought of them "winning" though, but don't want it to start costing me money just to get back at them.

I haven't opened the software yet, as I am still not 100% certain on whether to give up and keep it or not. Unfortunately, this was a business purchase and I'm therefore not covered by the distance selling regulations; that's only for consumers. :(

Some people have said that it might be "bootleg" software, but I don't know how to tell if it is or not. I'm certain it is the US version though, and therefore I won't be entitled to Adobe support and won't be able to use a UK upgrade copy in the future... well, not legally anyway...

My advice is that as soon as the 10 days passes, contact your bank and get the Visa dispute started, then if they agree that the company are out of order then they should do a chargeback. Maybe even ask them for the forms in advance so you can send it off asap.

My bank was pretty quick about it, but alas I left it too late to begin! Also, I reported the company to the Better Business Bureau in America (like trading standards) and I think that got them moving on sending my software. If I hadn't done that, they might have been slower sending it and I got have got my money back in time!

Get some print outs of the delivery info in the Ts&Cs and copies of the emails you sent them and send that off with the visa dispute forms to back up your story, and it should all go smoothly, fingers crossed!

Just realised I am assuming that you paid by Visa debit card! If that is the case then a visa dispute leading to chargeback is the way to go.

Hope something I've said will help you out, and you can get your money back. I will feel a lot better knowing that someone beat them!! I'd love to get them back for all the hours I've spent fretting over this!

Good luck,
Sarah
 
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dlc

New Member
Apr 27, 2009
5
0
0
Sarah, hi.

Seems that company is getting a bad press all over the web, and is just one of many websites apparently set up in this way by the same person. Be careful about mentioning the name of the company and/or it's owner (I changed my previous post)....reason I say that is they have responded on other forums not only with threats of legal action over defamatory remarks, but it also gives them forewarning of possible action people may be taking against them. It's obvious they Google from time to time to see what's being said about them...

Can you give me a very, very quick idea of the timescales of your situation. I'm thinking more and more that I've got to pre-empt this going wrong and begin proceedings asap.

Have you spoken to Adobe regarding the situation, and if so what was their stance? I was thinking of paying the import duty which would hopefully satisfy them regarding the legals, but as you rightly point out, the licenses may not be valid here and negate getting any future updates at a discounted price.

I'm off to research the Distance Selling Rules, as I wasn't aware they don't cover businesses. My purchase was for a business too, so that's something I'll need to investigate.

Keep in touch. Oh and is there a way to private message on this forum...can't seem to see a link anywhere???

David.
 

SCousens

New Member
Apr 20, 2009
6
0
0
Hi David,

I have just edited my post so that there isn't any mention of their name. Funnily enough, it just occurred to me last night that it might cause problems if they see our posts. Some really useful threads around the net have been removed due to the company threatening legal action. Although, if people are just explaining what happened to them, I can't see how that's illegal.

Here's the timescale of my experience with them:
18th March, ordered the software
1st April, got concerned as it hadn't arrived, checked out the company, got even more concerned and sent first cancellation email.
I continued you to bombard them with emails, threatening all sorts in the hope they would give me a refund.
7th April, started the visa dispute. There was a bit of a delay getting forms sent to me as there was the Easter weekend, if I remember correctly.
20th April, had just done the final stage for Visa chargeback, when I got home to find the goods had arrived.

So, that was over a month for them to arrive, and as I've said I think I helped speed up that process with all my threats. So hopefully you should have plenty of time to get your money back. Don't tell the company what you're doing (I made that mistake), or they will try to send the goods in time. Might be a good idea to cancel your card once you have the money back, so they can't try to recharge you or charge a restocking fee.

Sarah

ps. click on the person's name and it should give you a little drop down menu so you can send a private message :)
 

SCousens

New Member
Apr 20, 2009
6
0
0
Forgot to mention!
No, I haven't told Adobe yet as I'm still not sure whether to keep it or not.
The company declare the goods as a £25 game to avoid import taxes, so you'd have to contact someone to report it if you do receive the software. And it could cost a hell of a lot. But I don't think that Adobe would let it go if you pay the import, you'd probably have to have a word with them to see what they can do about it all. That's what I'll probably do if I decide to keep the software. Then again, on the other hand I don't want it to result in me being charged a fortune on import taxes or anything else. But as it's a business purchase, I ought to keep it all legit... arrggh! Too many variables! ;)
 

dlc

New Member
Apr 27, 2009
5
0
0
Sarah, hi.

Maybe Adobe would let you pay the import duty and use it legally and be eligible for updates??? Worth a try.

Seems like it's the digital equivalent of trying to sell a hairdryer with a two-pin American plug instead of a 3-pin....I don't think you can do that sort of thing.

DLC
 

dlc

New Member
Apr 27, 2009
5
0
0
Sarah, maybe check out the import duty on products such as this....you may still save money compared to buying the software in the UK perhaps.

DLC
 

dlc

New Member
Apr 27, 2009
5
0
0
...also find out if the fact they have sold you a product which legally is not for use in the UK makes it the company's responsibility for returns and the costs thereof.

DLC
 

Frankenstein

New Member
Apr 30, 2009
1
0
0
Somewhere in the UK
Similar problem to Sarah

Hi,

I joined today specifically to chip in with this problem which Sarah has experienced. I've had a similar problem.

I am making a claim from my credit card under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I paid for an item which did not arrive. The company's website uses sterling on all their prices, and they are using a .UK domain name - VERY MISLEADING:mad:

If you want to have this company investigated, then go to the excellent moneysavingexpert website. I can't provide the link because I'm a newbie. However, if you hunt around the website then you can find an email address "investigation @ moneysavingexpert.com". THEY WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU!

In the meantime I'm going to check out this forum - looks good!