County Court Judgement help needed

bbm

New Member
Nov 27, 2011
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Hi All, Im new here so apologise if this question is in the wrong place. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I have recently received a claim form from the county court which would indicate that a debt collector is due to commence proceedings against me for a debt I allegedly owe.I have made constant effort to try and resolve this with the creditor and with the help of a debt counsellor have requested on numerous occasions the loan agreement and details that would prove I owe the amount they claim. I am currently disputing over 9k that they claim I owe. The creditors have admitted they cannot provide the original loan agreement. This was sold to them some time ago- and I assume without the agreement details. Whilst I agree I do owe them some (not sure the exact amount as the original loan was for 3k) I was advised that the loan was unenforceable and until they can provide the details of how much i owed, i was not obliged to make any payment. They now claim i owe over 11k, with interest fees etc added on top. They say in the court claim form they have complied with sections III and IV and annex B of pre action conduct- but I would dispute this. I have asked them numerous times to provide details before I make payment but they have failed to do so. There was a time when I was inundated with up to 4 or 5 phone calls a day starting at 8am and up to 9pm at night. This was on top of 4 or 5 letters a month. as a result it caused me endless stress and I ultimately buckled and made an offer under stress, with the condition they would provide details in due course. They agreed, accepted a reduced payment but never provided the proof. I then contacted a debt counsellor who ultimately advised me to stop payments until they could provide the requested info. Sadly my counsellor who was acting independantly, passed away last year. I am currently trying to obtain my files from his family. The whole reason I failed to make payments in the first place was because I was forced to give up work to take custody of my two young daughters as a lone parent. What dad would refuse? Ultimately it had a huge impact on my finances. i had a very well paid professional career and then ended up on state benefits. All my records on the debt were lost in house moves. I am not trying to wish my debt away, but in all this have disputed the amount. Had the creditors provided the information as I requested I would have gladly made an offer of resolving this. they failed to do so. I have been told by people that because I agreed to make payment in the past I have accepted liability, but I have also in the past by my debt counsellor, been advised that because this was under duress and conditional on the fact they would later provide the documents this would not matter. What baffles me, is how can they prove in court how much they claim I owe, if they cant provide the original documents? I am thinking they could still be calling my bluff, because some people would panic and reply to the courts thus admitting liability in this situation, but if I continue to stand my ground and insist they prove the amount they claim then they may eventually realise in actual fact they cant. The bottom line is they cant. Im just worried how this will look in the eyes of the courts. I did write to them reminding them that under the consumer credit Act of 1974 sections 77-78 it states that they have a duty to provide the original signed credit agreement within a reasonable time and if this information is NOT provided within 12 working days they cannot take further action until the agreement is provided. Again this was done under advice and again they failed to provide which in my opinion breaches sections III and IV on the court papers which they claim to have adhered to. Had they provided this I could have resolved this in an amicable manner. I have 14 days in which to respond to the courts.
 

Witch consumer

Moderator
Sep 8, 2008
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Debtors retreat
Firstly, it is very important that you reply to the court as if you don't, the case will probably be awarded against you.

Secondly, in your reply, try not to quote the law, simply claim you acknowledge no debt with this company (as it is not them that you took the original debt out with) and that you have asked them on numerous occaisions to provide proof of the debt and that they have failed to do so.

Thirdly, did the debt advisor attempt to make any repayment arrangement with the creditor or debt collection agency? if this is the case, this will be of serious detriment to them in court as they are supposed to make every attempt to make payment arrangements before taking court action. If they did, include this in your reply to the court, you will be asked to provide any evidence you have later. I have doubts about this debt advisor from some of what you have said but thats a different matter.

Lastly, where did you get the quote re the CCA from?, it does not request the original signed agreement but a copy of the executed agreement which meets certain conditions, the signature of the debtor is not mentioned but a signature of the lender is, the courts have accepted an agreement which is accurate in that all sums and interest rates along with payment terms are included. Although as they haven't provided anything, they are in the wrong.

Please do not ignore this, they may be calling your bluff but only in as much that if you don't reply, they will win. Even if they were to succeed in securing repayment of the debt, it will be at a rate you can afford and probably only a fraction of what they are claiming.

Good luck, let us know how you get on
 

trickygj

Moderator
May 31, 2010
400
1
18
Cheshire
www.richardgjohnson.co.uk
bbm

I have recently received a claim form from the county court which would indicate that a debt collector is due to commence proceedings against me for a debt I allegedly owe
When you say claim form is it a copy of N1 that they propose to file or has it been served by the court? If it has been served you need to reply within 14 days to the court.

They say in the court claim form they have complied with sections III and IV and annex B of pre action conduct- but I would dispute
Annex B is in regard to the claimant advising you that you should seek independant advice and give you 14 days to do so. I would assume that by getting advice already and the age of the debt that this point is neither here nor there.

It may be that you agreed under duress and if they did call and send letters as you state then this in itself is against the law (S 40 Administration of Justice Act 1970)

What baffles me, is how can they prove in court how much they claim I owe, if they cant provide the original documents?
If they have filled in N1 then they must have the figures for the debt that you have asked them to send you. Mkae sure you make this clear.

I am thinking they could still be calling my bluff, because some people would panic and reply to the courts thus admitting liability in this situation, but if I continue to stand my ground and insist they prove the amount they claim then they may eventually realise in actual fact they cant.
Don't call their bluff. If the papers have been served from the court and you do not reply they will get judgement by default.

I did write to them reminding them that under the consumer credit Act of 1974 sections 77-78 it states that they have a duty to provide the original signed credit agreement within a reasonable time and if this information is NOT provided within 12 working days they cannot take further action
As Witch consumer states, don't quote the law on your reply particulalrly as these sections are not very straightforward in relation to your circumstances. Your main defence is that they have refused to show you how the debt has accrued from £3k to over £11k.
 
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