Vinyl in a Caravan
Hi all,
Bit of a rant for a first post, but more than anything a plea for help regarding a bad experience this weekend.
We have a small static caravan and have had two carpets and the vinyl flooring replaced. The carpets look great, but the vinyl leaves a lot to be desired.
Basically the fitter turned up and was rude, wanted extra money and was like a bull in a china shop. He scratched the walls, knocked pictures off the walls, threw his tools around and rocked the van until it looked like it was going to tip over. Oh and he was so rough with the gas hose on the cooker that it's split in several places, so we now need a plumber. To add insult to injury the shop that quoted on his behalf for fitting lied to us and under-quoted, so he ended up wanting more money than expected.
Issues as follows:
- Cost. I'm a Quantity Surveyor, so I know a thing or two about labour rates etc. We were charged £100 for the installation of two carpets and the vinyl in the van. Room sizes are 6.5 by 7 feet for the bedroom (apologies for not giving metres, I'm old school) and the living room even smaller. (I don't have the exact measures to hand). The point is, I did my homework and a 4m roll of carpet was more than enough to do both rooms. The vinyl was 6.5m by 2m (I remember that one, because I supplied the vinyl as I got it for free from a contact at work). The carpets were fiddly as new grippers had to be fitted and there was the fire place and fitted furniture to cut around, which I can appreciate. The vinyl is no easier, as when caravans are built they lay the floor and carpet first, then build all the furniture on top. I removed the old ones myself by cutting out and made a very neat job. The vinyl was a continuous run from kitchen to bathroom, and it’s a galley kitchen so the units had to be cut around and the floor run into the cooker and fridge spaces. Likewise with the bathroom, the toilet, WHB and shower cubicle and all pipes had to be cut around. The whole job took 3.5 hours, in which time he had two cigarette breaks at 15 minutes each. £34 per hour seems excessive to me, he was only travelling for 5 minutes maximum.
- The carpets. They look great, except for the fact that he cut the living room one too big, so the bedroom one was 3 inches too short. He blamed me for under-measuring the bedroom when I had the quote done. Later on he asked me for confirmation of where the living room carpet stopped, as he thought it was bigger than what it was. He later cut the extra off the living room one and fitted a strip down the shortfall in the bedroom. It looks OK as it’s invisible due to the bed. He also got spray glue on the wardrobes as he had to stick the strip down. Not overly concerned with this. None of this would have happened if he’d looked at the line I’d drawn on the floor boards or asked me before making the cuts. Being a QS, I’ve probably measured more houses for carpet fitting than he’s done in his life time. I wasn’t wrong.
- The vinyl. This is the real nitty-gritty. It was when he saw the vinyl that he refused to do it without money. Granted it was a bit of a job, but he claimed he was experienced with caravans so surely he would know what to expect! The shop quoted £60 for the whole job on his behalf, though he showed us the paperwork that shop gave him and it said ‘To discuss fit only price of vinyl’. LIES! Again, rudely, he implied that he would leave unless we paid an extra £40 (Taking it to £100, and that seeing as the shop had lied he was doing us a favour as he would normally charge at least £130). We paid him the £100 afterwards. The vinyl is Rhino Floor Elite, Limed Oak Natural. It was a very cold morning and the caravan was difficult to heat, but I still think we had about 18c inside. The 2m roll was only for the widest points, the majority was approximately 1m wide due to the small bathroom and kitchen units, hence there was a lot of wastage. What would you do in this situation? In my experience with the building trade, installers would take it outside, unroll it, measure the area to be floored and cut a large, rough template before rolling it up and bringing it back in. Not in this case. He unrolled it inside, jumping on it, scratching walls with the sharp edges, knocking pictures off and basically screwing it up to the point where it looked awful. We were in a state of panic and he basically told us to stop whining as when it warms up properly it’ll settle and the creases will disappear. He broke our £80 toilet seat and broke the plastic surround around the soil pipe. This is irreplaceable without taking the toilet out. Most of his cuts were very neat, and to make it look better he ran a bead of silicone round the outside. Only thing is, there are waves and bubbles that go up and down when you walk on them. When laid in bed the floor looks like a pool of waves. In the reflection of the sun, the creases are still clearly visible and there are dents when he’s jumped on it. He said all this would go away, nearly 4 days ago. I know for a fact the dents won’t disappear, they’re too severe. It looks very nice, in the dark, and at a glance, but look closely or in reflected sunlight and it looks second-hand, not 4 days old. He did say that if the lumps didn’t come out when it was warmed to give him a call and he’d come back. Not going to happen I’m afraid, we don’t want that animal in our pride and joy again. We had the heater on full pelt every night and moved it all around the floor, to give him the benefit of the doubt. Nothing improved. We then Googled what he’d said about heat and ‘settling’ and found nothing. Imagine putting a pen on it, then stamping on it hard enough to make an impression. That’s what the dents look like. I can imagine the vinyl being less pliable in the cold, but he still shouldn’t have kicked, scraped, screwed up and jumped on it like he did, I’m sure. Don’t they use heat guns in the cold? He also used spray glue in a few places. Will this prevent us replacing it?
Apologies for the long post. To summarise, I’m looking for a couple of answers:
1. Will heat make it ‘settle’ and will the bubbles and creases go away, like he says? Are we being too fussy? It does look well when we’re not ‘looking for it’ if you like. All I know is it may look more up to date than the old one but the condition isn’t nearly as good. The original was 5 years old. The bubbles are large enough to have already broken the bead of silicone holding the edges down in 3 places. My Mrs is devastated. I have to re-iterate, at a glance and in the dark it looks OK. When you’re laid on the sofa or the bed it gives the game away as the ripples are clearly visible, and reflected sunlight makes the dents stand out by a mile.
2. We haven’t paid the shop for the materials yet. The bill has been posted and is £120, as quoted. Should we be taking this further? In my mind the shop quoted for and passed us on to the fitter, so his shoddy workmanship is their fault. I think we should be forwarding the plumber’s bill and the cost of a replacement floor including it’s fitting cost, or at least giving them the opportunity to supply and arrange the install of a replacement, by an alternative fitter.
3. We’re a little scared of the above. The fitter was originally from our area, so knows where we live and is regularly in the area. He also lives within 5 minutes of our caravan, which closes for winter in a couple of weeks. If we tackle the shop, they’ll tackle him and he may tackle our van. What do we do? I was tempted to ask him for our money back or threaten with legal action, but we don’t want anything to do with him again. This is all a very stressful experience!
Thanks for your patience.
Hi all,
Bit of a rant for a first post, but more than anything a plea for help regarding a bad experience this weekend.
We have a small static caravan and have had two carpets and the vinyl flooring replaced. The carpets look great, but the vinyl leaves a lot to be desired.
Basically the fitter turned up and was rude, wanted extra money and was like a bull in a china shop. He scratched the walls, knocked pictures off the walls, threw his tools around and rocked the van until it looked like it was going to tip over. Oh and he was so rough with the gas hose on the cooker that it's split in several places, so we now need a plumber. To add insult to injury the shop that quoted on his behalf for fitting lied to us and under-quoted, so he ended up wanting more money than expected.
Issues as follows:
- Cost. I'm a Quantity Surveyor, so I know a thing or two about labour rates etc. We were charged £100 for the installation of two carpets and the vinyl in the van. Room sizes are 6.5 by 7 feet for the bedroom (apologies for not giving metres, I'm old school) and the living room even smaller. (I don't have the exact measures to hand). The point is, I did my homework and a 4m roll of carpet was more than enough to do both rooms. The vinyl was 6.5m by 2m (I remember that one, because I supplied the vinyl as I got it for free from a contact at work). The carpets were fiddly as new grippers had to be fitted and there was the fire place and fitted furniture to cut around, which I can appreciate. The vinyl is no easier, as when caravans are built they lay the floor and carpet first, then build all the furniture on top. I removed the old ones myself by cutting out and made a very neat job. The vinyl was a continuous run from kitchen to bathroom, and it’s a galley kitchen so the units had to be cut around and the floor run into the cooker and fridge spaces. Likewise with the bathroom, the toilet, WHB and shower cubicle and all pipes had to be cut around. The whole job took 3.5 hours, in which time he had two cigarette breaks at 15 minutes each. £34 per hour seems excessive to me, he was only travelling for 5 minutes maximum.
- The carpets. They look great, except for the fact that he cut the living room one too big, so the bedroom one was 3 inches too short. He blamed me for under-measuring the bedroom when I had the quote done. Later on he asked me for confirmation of where the living room carpet stopped, as he thought it was bigger than what it was. He later cut the extra off the living room one and fitted a strip down the shortfall in the bedroom. It looks OK as it’s invisible due to the bed. He also got spray glue on the wardrobes as he had to stick the strip down. Not overly concerned with this. None of this would have happened if he’d looked at the line I’d drawn on the floor boards or asked me before making the cuts. Being a QS, I’ve probably measured more houses for carpet fitting than he’s done in his life time. I wasn’t wrong.
- The vinyl. This is the real nitty-gritty. It was when he saw the vinyl that he refused to do it without money. Granted it was a bit of a job, but he claimed he was experienced with caravans so surely he would know what to expect! The shop quoted £60 for the whole job on his behalf, though he showed us the paperwork that shop gave him and it said ‘To discuss fit only price of vinyl’. LIES! Again, rudely, he implied that he would leave unless we paid an extra £40 (Taking it to £100, and that seeing as the shop had lied he was doing us a favour as he would normally charge at least £130). We paid him the £100 afterwards. The vinyl is Rhino Floor Elite, Limed Oak Natural. It was a very cold morning and the caravan was difficult to heat, but I still think we had about 18c inside. The 2m roll was only for the widest points, the majority was approximately 1m wide due to the small bathroom and kitchen units, hence there was a lot of wastage. What would you do in this situation? In my experience with the building trade, installers would take it outside, unroll it, measure the area to be floored and cut a large, rough template before rolling it up and bringing it back in. Not in this case. He unrolled it inside, jumping on it, scratching walls with the sharp edges, knocking pictures off and basically screwing it up to the point where it looked awful. We were in a state of panic and he basically told us to stop whining as when it warms up properly it’ll settle and the creases will disappear. He broke our £80 toilet seat and broke the plastic surround around the soil pipe. This is irreplaceable without taking the toilet out. Most of his cuts were very neat, and to make it look better he ran a bead of silicone round the outside. Only thing is, there are waves and bubbles that go up and down when you walk on them. When laid in bed the floor looks like a pool of waves. In the reflection of the sun, the creases are still clearly visible and there are dents when he’s jumped on it. He said all this would go away, nearly 4 days ago. I know for a fact the dents won’t disappear, they’re too severe. It looks very nice, in the dark, and at a glance, but look closely or in reflected sunlight and it looks second-hand, not 4 days old. He did say that if the lumps didn’t come out when it was warmed to give him a call and he’d come back. Not going to happen I’m afraid, we don’t want that animal in our pride and joy again. We had the heater on full pelt every night and moved it all around the floor, to give him the benefit of the doubt. Nothing improved. We then Googled what he’d said about heat and ‘settling’ and found nothing. Imagine putting a pen on it, then stamping on it hard enough to make an impression. That’s what the dents look like. I can imagine the vinyl being less pliable in the cold, but he still shouldn’t have kicked, scraped, screwed up and jumped on it like he did, I’m sure. Don’t they use heat guns in the cold? He also used spray glue in a few places. Will this prevent us replacing it?
Apologies for the long post. To summarise, I’m looking for a couple of answers:
1. Will heat make it ‘settle’ and will the bubbles and creases go away, like he says? Are we being too fussy? It does look well when we’re not ‘looking for it’ if you like. All I know is it may look more up to date than the old one but the condition isn’t nearly as good. The original was 5 years old. The bubbles are large enough to have already broken the bead of silicone holding the edges down in 3 places. My Mrs is devastated. I have to re-iterate, at a glance and in the dark it looks OK. When you’re laid on the sofa or the bed it gives the game away as the ripples are clearly visible, and reflected sunlight makes the dents stand out by a mile.
2. We haven’t paid the shop for the materials yet. The bill has been posted and is £120, as quoted. Should we be taking this further? In my mind the shop quoted for and passed us on to the fitter, so his shoddy workmanship is their fault. I think we should be forwarding the plumber’s bill and the cost of a replacement floor including it’s fitting cost, or at least giving them the opportunity to supply and arrange the install of a replacement, by an alternative fitter.
3. We’re a little scared of the above. The fitter was originally from our area, so knows where we live and is regularly in the area. He also lives within 5 minutes of our caravan, which closes for winter in a couple of weeks. If we tackle the shop, they’ll tackle him and he may tackle our van. What do we do? I was tempted to ask him for our money back or threaten with legal action, but we don’t want anything to do with him again. This is all a very stressful experience!
Thanks for your patience.
you should've been warned about it though. If the glue won't come off, you can claim some more compensation for the glue , but unless the wardrobes need replacing, I doubt it'd be worth it.