help bought a dangerous unfit car

[onestupidwoman]

I know I should have had it checked and I know I have been so so stupid but I purchased a car from a garage in harrow on July 14th 2013. I filled up with petrol and thought the petrol smell was from the extreme heat and perhaps spilling a bit when filling.

After 3 days it hadn't gone so rang up and they said bring back for fixing. I was without the car for 3 days while being fixed and went to collect - however the repair garage (who had told me a fuel hose was loose/off and car could have gone on fire) said although they checked the car seller had not returned it for further checks after they supposedly test drove it.

I collected the car and took to a local garage for a check. They couldn't check car fully as bonnet was jammed down and cable broken. The climate control didn't work as although pipes were there the radiator for it had been removed. It also still smelt of fuel and I was told without bonnet being opened they couldn't fully have checked fuel problem. I decided to reject the vehicle on basis of sale of goods act 1979 and returned car to garage where owner took me to repair garage. He would not entertain a refund despite my local mechanic being present and saying the only way to get to engine was break front grill. Salesman said he would get repairs done it would take a week and although he could provide a courtesy car he wouldn't as I had done things the wrong way by turning up at his garage unannounced. While we were at the repair garage the repair manager let slip that the bonnet had been broken before it was sold to me. The garage owner was silencing him. My son has captured much of this on phone video.

That night at 10.30 pm he sent a text offering me another car (think he realised how costly repairs would be) which I had test driven at time but had rejected partly as they didn't have the V5 document present. I was going to consider this car as an exchange ( I run a small business that is dependent on a car and also have a disabled child who has hospital appointments all over the place) but only after an RAC inspection. However I rand DVLA and they said there is no tax on the car as garage is stating and without the log book I wouldn't be able to tax it (take 4-6 weeks for V5) even if RAC said it was o.k. I am at my wits end. I know I have been horribly scammed and have put in writing to seller my reasons for rejecting car and asking for refund but no answer to letter which garage signed for and also I hand delivered a copy when returning car.

Trading standards haven't bothered to contact me the citizens advice have said I couldn't start small claims court action yet as I have to be seen as more reasonable and write more letters. They actually advised me to keep the vehicle as a bargaining tool but you could smell petrol even when parked up outside it so I was scared to leave it on the public road in case someone smoked near it. This garage is on the high street and I can't think why nobody seems to be bothered that he has sold a vehicle that isn't fit for use.

This has affected me so badly I can't eat or sleep My 10 year old was with me when I bought the car and is so upset as we have no car to go to the isle of wight for our holiday next week. My business is suffering badly in a short space of time.
Please any advice would be appreciated I know I have been so stupid so Please no need to tell me that.

 

[onestupidwoman]

I am about to write a second letter but unsure whether to tell this seller that I have video evidence of him calling fuel leak, no bonnet opening and missing radiator as minor things and that he knew of bonnet fault before sale. I had considered writing that unless he did the right and lawful thing and refund me then I wouldn't hesitate to contact BBC watchdog/local paper etc and use this but yet again would that be a stupid thing that could make more trouble for me?? Could I be accused of blackmail?

 

[Witch consumer]

There is no need to threaten or blackmail, it is illegal to sell a car in a dangerous condition, what you need to do is write a final letter outlining the facts give them 10 days to respond or you will take them to the Small Claims Court, add in the letter that they admitted they knew of the faults and failed to tell you meaning they mis-sold the car. Send the letter to the garage owner and if they don't respond, come back and let us know and we will talk you theough the SCC.

Is the car still on your drive? Please phone your local fire department and explain the situation and ask for storage advice.

 

[onestupidwoman]

Hi no I have only a private parking bay that is next door to two houses, I was worried about it exploding if a spark went near it do drove it back to the garage on Wednesday. He didn't admit he knew of the bonnet fault, it was the repair garage manager who dropped him in it when he said the car had been in that garage before the sale and they had to use a lever to open the bonnet. Do you think I should tell him I have that conversation recorded ? I truly believe this man is a crook and the small claims court would no doubt find in my favour but he will probably have scarpered by then

 

[Witch consumer]

I have sent you a private message, he may well be a dodgy car dealer but you have the law on your side, have you still got the keys to the car? And have you transferred the vehicle into your name and have the log book? Did you get a receipt from the garage?

 

[onestupidwoman]

Hi no I handed back the keys as he was insisting on repair and refusing a refund so I didn't feel I had a choice but to give them. I do have the small section of the registration as they are supposed to have sent the main one off but think it can be 4-6 weeks before I could get back. he did give receipt with 3 months warranty for engine, gearbox and electrics. Sorry to sound so thick but how can I access a private message?

 

[Witch consumer]

Click on the user cp button top left and on the left hand menu you'll find an option to view your messages

 

[onestupidwoman]

Hi thanks very much for the advice. I think this will take months going to the scc and am not sure I will get anything at end. I thought this type of trading stopped years ago obviously not

 

[Witch consumer]

There are still plenty of cowboys about unfortunately, please feel free to name the garage if you wish, to save anyone else being stung.

 

[onestupidwoman]

the garage is Harrow motors centre high street harrow. He is not replying to any letter and is still lying. He offered another car and I have arranged as RAC inspection but he says no V5, present or the so called service history. It is supposed to be tomorrow but he refused to confirm this would be ok with me either in writing or text. The RAC rang and he said it would be ok but DVLA had told me the car isn't taxed and the V5 is in previous persons name so I wouldn't be able to tax the vehicle. The last change of keeper they said is July 3rd so could be in progress but could be 4-6 weeks. I really don't know what to do. If I don't cancel the RAC inspection by 3pm today that's another £183 down drain on top of the £3,490 I paid for car. Any advice please as trading standards still haven't contacted me and the citizens advice line (as you can't get through on phone to trading standards) just keep saying write and give him time as I need to be seen as reasonable! Despite fact I bought an illegal vehicle on 14 July returned it 4 days later, was without it for 3 days while they supposedly fixed petrol leak, then had it for 48 hours before returning it for good

 

[ALewis]

Yeah the thing is, the majority of Trading Stamdards departments do not have a consumer contact number.
I know of 6 TS Departments , of which only 1 has a contact line.

What happens is you call the consumer direct number (or whoever has taken control of it), and if they believe that your local TS needs informing, they'll send the case details.
However: Trading Standards typically do not investigate from one complaint, they need a number of complaints before doing anything - unless there is a serious problem, and I mean proper serious.

Of course though, if your local TS does already have complaints about a company, and you add to it, there may then be enough to investigate.

 

[onestupidwoman]

Despite asking for a refund and sending it formally. The owner offered another car which I had RAC checked today........ and it wasn't good. The VIN number was missing from the door, the automatic transmission had a leak, there were wires cut and tied behind boot... I could go on but won't in short the report makes very scary reading. I spoke to RAC legal but they said give him another 14 days to refund!
I bought the original car on the 14th but only had it for 4 days and been left using cabs/buses since. I would in desperation have accepted the car today and actually turned up at end of inspection in hope it was o.k.
The salesman (not the owner) was there and after the RAC man left. I told him straight to tell his boss I want a refund or they can expect further action and that I had recorded stuff. I have forwarded onto the owner the RAC report.
When can I start court action?
I have totally had enough. Without the VIN number (apparently it had passed an ID check with DVlA) but what does it mean if there was no number on the car to identify it. Was it a different car to the one that went the the check?
I am so confused and even if I don't get my money back I want to publicly shame this creep for firstly selling me an illegal car and then this polyfilled effort that a chassis re-alignment test was recommended by.
When I rand the owner yesterday to check he would allow the inspection, he was screaming at me and said the only reason he was doing anything was because I had a son!

 

[Witch consumer]

Usually we would advise 8 weeks for them to rectify the situation or give a final response to your claim for a refund but it sounds like this bloke is becoming abusive so I wouldn't recommend you contact him again, you could file a court claim now as you seem to have exhausted all avenues. It is quite possible he'll cave in when he gets the papers but he could also ignore them in which case you will get the case awarded to you.

You will have to formally tell him you will be taking him to court, may be worth one last letter giving him a week to respond.

 

[onestupidwoman]

Went to the garage yesterday and asked for the refund. He refused and started having a go at me blaming everything on me. He said the original car I purchased was being repaired but I don' believe a word that comes out of his mouth. I waited in the office for him to return and discovered he uses different names and there was a bailiffs letter relating to unpaid council tax at another address in one of these names. I know I have totally lost my money. Taking him to court won't mean anything... it will probably add to a growing list of court convictions. I feel so sick I really do and don't know what to do. Is the small claims court costly? am already £3,700 down (car cost and RAC inspection)

 

[ALewis]

Hi,
Court costs vary dependant on a number of things, however if the judge finds in your favour - the costs are paid by the other party.
The exact figures can only be known when putting your application in for a court hearing, however I stumbled across a site which speaks about a £4000 claim (which is near enough to your £3700)

The site also explains the payment system quite well to:
Small Claims Court Fees

Full details published by the government regarding the fees can be found here too:
http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex050-eng.pdf

 

[onestupidwoman]

It is now a month since this car was sold to me and I had it in my possession for 4 days. I was offered another car from them which I had RAC checked but they sent a report back that wasn't good - 9 out of 14 points were marked serious. the owner refused point blank to refund me and still said the original car was being repaired. However that was two weeks ago and no word since. To make it worse I have discovered the owner is using 3 different names (am unsure if any are real). He also has a collection of bailiffs letters so it appears he is used to being taken to court. I have spoken to the DVLA who have confirmed they have not received a log book for the car I bought. What should I do?

 

[onestupidwoman]

Re: help bought a dangerous unfit car - Please advise

I have started a small claims action online and am awaiting any response from seller. But something unbelievable has happened today. I was driving in Turnpike lane, somewhere I never am and my son screamed out there's our car. We were in stationary traffic and I saw the car with registration for myself with a young man driving it on his phone. This was 15 miles away from purchase garage. I knew immediately the car I paid £3,490 on July 14th has been sold on. To add insult to injury the Police don't want to know - it's not theft as the V5 has not been received by the DVLA so I am not the registered keeper even though I have the other part to the V5 and filled out the first page which the garage said they were sending off.
When I rejected the car, the reason I left it with him was because it was leaking fuel. I had already been told by his repair garage that I was lucky it hadn't caught fire and after discovering the bonnet wouldn't open due to a broken cable I was told the fuel system could not have been checked and my local garage said to return it to him as they weren't prepared to break the front grill to get into the engine.
I do not even know if the small claims will find in my favour, if legally I'm not considered the owner but how can this happen? I filled in the first page of the V5 so could he just have ordered a duplicate and sold it on?
Can someone please answer as I feel so stupid but didn't feel I could leave the car on a public road when I was told it could go on fire, still reeked of fuel with a bonnet that couldn't even be opened to try and make that part of it safe.
thanks

 

[Witch consumer]

The police should have acted in this case, I assume you told them the car was unsafe to be on the road?

In addition, until you get a refund, this car belongs to you, so it is theft, did you not get a receipt?

I would fill in a V62 for a new log book , copy ths part of the logbook you have along with a receipt if you have one, and ask them to issue a V5 in your name, they will write to the current registered keeper and ask if it's been sold but if they don't reply the logbook will be issued.

You need to save any documentation you have for court and I wiuld definitely go ahead with the courtcase as SCC is relatively cheap and you can employ bailiffs to get your money if he doesn't pay.

Also try to find out what his giveb name is, if he's using others fraudulently, go back to the police. Once you have the log book, you can go back to them anyway.

 

[onestupidwoman]

Thanks for the reply. Yes I have a receipt and the second page to the V5 and have an insurance certificate with the registration on. I ran the 101 police number and the operator checked with a supervisor and said it was theft and said I should go make a statement. However at the Police station they were not accommodating and said it wasn't theft, it could have been a garage man test driving the car or could have been his son! I rang 101 back when I left and the operator checked and said it wasn't theft.... I had given the car back so he could do what he liked with it and it was a civil matter nothing to do with them.
I really can't believe this and am wondering if he ever meant to sell the car to me. I definitely filled out both pages of the V5 and they said they were sending off page 1.
I have just two days ago bought another car on finance (as I have no money left after what's happened) and again I was given page 2 and they said they were sending off page 1, and this is from a large national company.
I told the Police and trading standards about the false names but no-body is interested! In fact since I got the car, more signs have been added for the garage on the high street saying 'we buy and sell used cars'
I will do as you say and request a V5 to be issued in my name

 

[onestupidwoman]

Here is the car I bought on July 14th the one with the petrol leak, the bonnet that wouldn't open and a missing radiator, still being advertised for sale this time using the car wash name which is on same land as harrow motors centre.
2007 Vauxhall Astra VVT Elite 5 door. FULL LEATHER. 30,000 miles only. Brand new MOT. 6 Months Tax | Harrow | Gumtree
This has 3 owners, no service history, no climate control due to the radiator for that being missing.
The Police rang me this morning, the one who told me it was theft and to go to the Police station to say it wasn't theft and I didn't have a leg to stand on.
Does a receipt and the second page of V5 mean absolutely nothing?