leather jacket

[Meduza]

Hi,

I bought a leather jacket in May 2013. I was happy with it and wore it couple of times, not too many times. I treated it well. The size is 16, mine is 12-14.
Two days ago I have noticed it has got a fault: the seam was opened in the back for about 7 cm, it looks like the thread with which it was sown gave its way or the hole was there from the beginning, I just did not notice it until now. The size I have mentioned was for that reason that I could not force the seam to open by being too fat and having the jacket too stretched on me. Even if I did, it should survive such little strain, should it not? It is made of leather. I paid 150 quid for it, it is from the hELium range they sell on Oxford Street in London in the basement and they claim they are a quality jackets. I have discovered other minor faults on it: the item has places sown across in squares, like quilted jackets have today, and the thread was loosened on a few more places, too. I also have discovered it at the same opportunity as the first two days ago.

I took it to the seller today and demanded a full refund as it appears to me that this particular item is of poor make. I had an opportunity to have a similar case in the past and won the case as the developed a fault within even a month (shoes) and the Consumers Direct confirmed that it was a manufacturer`s fault and I was entitled for a full refund. Now it lasted for 3 months to find out and it was not damaged intentionally or by inappropriate wearing or treatment. But the seller only insisted on having it repaired. I did not want this as the seams may get loosen at other places and it takes me time or extra money to go to the seller again. I do not wish to pay him visits like having piano lessons.

I told him I was going to contact the Consumers Direct (but learned afterwards that they were shut down and there is CAB available now, which is not too responsive in some cases as I already had an opportunity to find out). The seller just insisted that the repair is the only option as I have already been using the jacket. Full stop.

Who is right and who is wrong in this specific case?
I would really like to get a full refund.

 

[Witch consumer]

You are right, this is from the Sale of Goods Act hub, which is specifically written by Trading Standards for businesses (rather than consumers) to explain their obligations:

Circumstances when customers do have a legal right to a refund, repair or replacement

Customers do have a legal right to a refund, repair or replacement if an item they purchased
does not match the description
is not of satisfactory quality
is not fit for purpose .

Each of these circumstances would mean that the item does not conform to contract and therefore it can be described as faulty . The next section of this guide, Your responsibilities as a retailer, provides a full explanation.

If you point out a fault to a customer and they are able to inspect that fault before they make a purchase, their purchase means they have accepted the fault and they cannot claim their legal right (outlined above) in relation to that particular fault.

Customers' rights last for six years

The law says that a customer can approach you with a claim about an item they purchased from you for up to six years from the date of sale (five years after discovery of the problem in Scotland).

This does not mean that everything you sell has to last six years from the date of purchase! It is the time limit for the customer to make a claim about an item. During this period, you are legally required to deal with a customer who claims that their item does not conform to contract (is faulty ) and you must decide what would be the reasonable amount of time to expect the goods to last. A customer cannot hold you responsible for fair wear and tear .

The six-year period is not the same as a guarantee, but it does mean that even where the guarantee or warranty supplied with the product has ended, your customer may still have legal rights.

Complying with the law

You cannot remove a customer's legal rights, for example by displaying a notice saying 'we do not give refunds under any circumstances' or 'credit notes only in the case of faulty items'.

It is also against the law to mislead consumers about their legal rights - this could lead to a criminal prosecution under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

*The customer does not have a legal right to a refund, repair or replacement as a result of the damage their repair attempt has caused to the item. But, they may still have a right to a remedy because of the original fault with the item, such as a price reduction or a partial refund. Or, if appropriate, the customer may request a repair of the original fault if this makes the item usable despite the damage they have caused. See Faulty goods that have been accepted for more information about these remedies.

If you wish to print it off to take with you, you can find it here:

Sale of Goods Act Explained

 

[Meduza]

thanks. i have read the post and also the material in the link regarding the faulty goods, #5.

I am still not 100% sure whether the law is on my side.
Can someone consider the 3 months (2 months actually, I have just recalculated it, lol) of rare use as "acceptance" of the item? Otherwise I may not be entitled for the full refund. The law does not specify the time and only uses the "reasonable" term for this. What would one find to be reasonable in my case?

Later in the link they say that I have to prove that the fault was there at the time of purchase. I am aware that up to 6 months the fault is considered as present at time of purchase. Is that right? What part of the Sale of goods act says about this?
I want to contact their office by e-mail and give them all this information and make the message bullet proof.

 

[Witch consumer]

F39

48AIntroductory

  (1)This section applies if—(a)the buyer deals as consumer or, in Scotland, there is a consumer contract in which the buyer is a consumer, and(b)the goods do not conform to the contract of sale at the time of delivery.(2)If this section applies, the buyer has the right—(a)under and in accordance with section 48B below, to require the seller to repair or replace the goods, or(b)under and in accordance with section 48C below—(i)to require the seller to reduce the purchase price of the goods to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or(ii)to rescind the contract with regard to the goods in question.
(3)For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.appropriate amount, or(ii)to rescind the contract with regard to the goods in question.(3)For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.[/QUOTE]

 

[Meduza]

Thanks witch consumer,

My main concern now is whether one could clearly consider the jacket with weakened seams here and there as not conformed and therefore I have an absolute right to demand full refund and whether the seller must give me that, therefore not insisting on repair or replacement (I don`t want replacement either).
I can send some photos I took of the faults if someone was interested.
Clearly, the seams can get loosen at any time in some other places of the item after the repair. I do not expect them to re-sew the whole item. Therefore I want to insist that the item is not of a satisfactory quality so that I can rescind the contract.

I would appreciate if someone just look at my case and says: yes, you have the right or no, you do not and the seller can decide what he will offer or you let it be otherwise.

The language of law is so complicated for me and I had to read the last post about 3 times to make a sense of it.

I spoke to one of their staff today and I only managed to find a phone number via their accountant as they do not have any other contact available. They want me to travel again to the store (it takes me about 1 and half hour one way) and see what we can do. I want to put the key points of my case and the legislation points in writing and give it to them to read so finally they will understand that I have done my homework and I know that I am right (am I?).

Another thing is that if we do not come to an agreement for the second time, I want to send a letter with my concerns to them officially before I proceed further to the court (If I am absolutely right). Do you think that sending the letter via recorded delivery to their accountant (that address is on the receipt of purchase) is sufficient, or shall I post one to each of the two directors to their addresses I found on the Companies In The UK website? They both live/are registered at different addresses (I just hope they are still actual).

 

[Witch consumer]

The fact that the item failed within 6 months gives you the right to demand a refund, you really need to write to their registered address with a letter of complaint giving them 10 days to issue your refund or you will take legal action to recover your money. I don't know how much you paid for the jacket but the terms satisfactory quality and durable still apply. You can copy the complaint to the other addresses you have, it may help.

 

[Meduza]

The fact that the item failed within 6 months gives you the right to demand a refund, you really need to write to their registered address with a letter of complaint giving them 10 days to issue your refund or you will take legal action to recover your money. I don't know how much you paid for the jacket but the terms satisfactory quality and durable still apply. You can copy the complaint to the other addresses you have, it may help.

thanks a lot. I only wonder whether I will have the legal right to demand refunding also the cost of the postage? All three postages if I decide to post it as I plan?
I did this in the past with a cheap pair of shoes (Barrats, £12) and they paid me all expenses I had with the matter. But they were a big company for which the reputation is important. These guys are just a new Ltd. company and the fact that their official company address is the address of their accountant (about 90 companies are registered to that address) says that they may not be that easy.

Also: do I have to travel to the store once more as we agreed with the seller today? I wish that I did not have to. Or I would demand the travel costs recovery, too, and I told this to him today. He said that he probably would not be willing to do it. But I will only tell him the same thing that I told the other guy yesterday. This will only be a waste of time for me if we do not agree on full refund on the place.

The jacket price was heaven knows what, but I paid £150.

 

[Witch consumer]

If you rescind the contract, you should be in the same position as you were had you never bought it so yes, they should refund the postage, £150 is not cheap and would be worth taking them to the small claims court for as you can also claim your costs.

 

[Meduza]

If you rescind the contract, you should be in the same position as you were had you never bought it so yes, they should refund the postage, £150 is not cheap and would be worth taking them to the small claims court for as you can also claim your costs.

Perfect.
So do you think that I have the right to rescind after about 2 months of having the jacket in my possession? They still keep arguing that they cannot give me a full refund because I have been wearing it (which is irrelevant, I think).
Is there a power (chance of a different opinion than is mine and yours) that could consider my demand for a full refund inappropriate (perhaps in the court) and that I may end up in loss after that (court fee £25, other expenses and so on...)?

In addition, how would you formulate the sentence regarding the paragraph you copied a while ago? I don`t know what the F39 means or 48A, B etc.

Thanks for your help, that means a lot to me as it makes writing the letter to them easier and looking more professional. English is not my first language, btw.

 

[Witch consumer]

Soga states that goods purchased must be of satisfactory quality and durable (amongst other things) in S.14, the paragraph I inserted below explains that if goods develop a fault within 6 months then it is assumed the fault was there at purchase and you as a consumer are entitled to reject the goods, the seller must then take them back and return your money.

A seller should be aware of your rights, if he isn't, or doesn't accept them, you should use the soga hub details I posted earlier from Trading Standards, I would quote directly from that rather than the legislation in your letter and quote directly, giving the source as Trading Standards.

For clarity, if you had had the jacket for say 12 months, he would be entitled to reduce the refund by the amount of use you had from it, I.e. if the jacket was expected to last 5 years and failed after 1 year, he would be able to deduct 1/5 of the cost from your refund, under 6 months this does not apply.

Finally, the choice of whether to have a refund, repair or replacement is yours, not his.

 

[Meduza]

Soga states that goods purchased must be of satisfactory quality and durable (amongst other things) in S.14, the paragraph I inserted below explains that if goods develop a fault within 6 months then it is assumed the fault was there at purchase and you as a consumer are entitled to reject the goods, the seller must then take them back and return your money.

A seller should be aware of your rights, if he isn't, or doesn't accept them, you should use the soga hub details I posted earlier from Trading Standards, I would quote directly from that rather than the legislation in your letter and quote directly, giving the source as Trading Standards.

For clarity, if you had had the jacket for say 12 months, he would be entitled to reduce the refund by the amount of use you had from it, I.e. if the jacket was expected to last 5 years and failed after 1 year, he would be able to deduct 1/5 of the cost from your refund, under 6 months this does not apply.

Finally, the choice of whether to have a refund, repair or replacement is yours, not his.

Bless you (I am not religious, but feel like that right now, haha).
This is what I needed to know.
Thanks a lot.

 

[Meduza]

well, this is my letter so far (some details removed).

will it be ok like this? or what should I change?
========================================================

A complaint – rescinding the contract

Dear Sir,

I am writing to you in order to rescind the contract/purchase of a hELium leather jacket, bought at xxx on the 20th of May 2013 because the item is faulty, in accordance with the Sale of Goods Act 1979.
I am rescinding the contract for the following reason: After 2 months from the purchase I noticed that the seam on the back had split for 4 cm in length. Soon after that I spotted that other seams on the quilted area below the right arm were also loose, some even detached from the leather.
Sale of Goods Act 1979 states that goods purchased must be of satisfactory quality and durable (among other things) in S.14. it also states that if goods develop a fault within 6 months then it is assumed the fault was there at purchase and me as a consumer is entitled to reject the goods. The seller must then take them back and return my money. According to the mentioned faults that were either present at the time of purchase or developed/worsened within two months after the purchase, this jacket fails to meet the criteria for durability and satisfactory quality, therefore I am entitled for a full refund for the item, which I demand. The scanned copy of the receipt of the purchase is attached to this letter.

On the 24th of May 2013 at 1pm I visited the shop mentioned above with my request of full refund for the faulty item but I was mislead by your staff in the basement where the leather goods are being sold that I am only entitled for a repair of the item because I have been wearing it. I explained to the staff (a man of Asian origin in his 40s or early 50s, I don`t know his name) that according to the Sale of Goods Act 1979 I am entitled for a full refund for a faulty item within 6 months from purchase if it is of poor quality. I did not accept the repair as the seams can get loosen on other places after the repair and I am not willing to spend hours of travel and additional costs for travel to have it repaired again and again. The item obviously does not meet the criteria for satisfactory quality and durability, therefore my demand for full refund is justified. In addition, by misleading me about my legal rights and refusing to comply with them, the seller puts himself into a risk of criminal prosecution under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

Please respond to this letter within 7 working days (by Tuesday the 6th of August 2013) or call me on xxx to discuss this matter. After we have agreed on the full refund I am willing to make my way to the shop again and return the faulty item for the refund. I do not require to cover my travel expenses at this point.
Should we not come to the agreement, I will have no choice but to file the claim at a small claim court and demand to cover all additional expenses with this case on top of the price paid for the jacket.

 

[Witch consumer]

I have made a few changes but nothing in the substance of the letter, it covers everything it needs to so hopefully you will get a favourable response.

well, this is my letter so far (some details removed).

will it be ok like this? or what should I change?
========================================================

A complaint – rescinding the contract

Dear Sir,

I am writing to you in order to rescind the contract/purchase of a hELium leather jacket, bought at xxx on the 20th of May 2013 in accordance with the Sale of Goods Act 1979. because the item is faulty,
I am rejecting the jacket for the following reason: After 2 months from the purchase I noticed that the seam on the back had split for 4 cm in length. Soon after that I spotted that other seams on the quilted area below the right arm were also loose, some even detached from the leather.
S.14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 states that goods purchased must be of satisfactory quality and durable and also states that if goods develop a fault within 6 months then it is assumed the fault existed at purchase and as a consumer I am entitled to reject the goods. The seller must then take them back and return my money. According to the mentioned faults that were either present at the time of purchase or developed/worsened within two months after the purchase, this jacket fails to meet the criteria for durability and satisfactory quality, therefore I am entitled for a full refund for the item, which I demand. The scanned copy of the receipt of the purchase is attached to this letter.

On the 24th of May 2013 at 1pm I visited the shop mentioned above with my request of full refund for the faulty item but I was mislead by your staff in the basement where the leather goods are being sold that I am only entitled for a repair of the item because I have been wearing it. I explained to the staff that according to the Sale of Goods Act 1979 I am entitled for a full refund for a faulty item within 6 months from purchase if it is of poor quality. I did not accept the repair as I suspect the seams could fail in other places after the repair and I am not willing to spend hours of travel and additional costs for travel to have it repaired again and again. The item obviously does not meet the criteria for satisfactory quality and durability, therefore my demand for full refund is justified. In addition, by misleading me about my legal rights and refusing to comply with them, the seller puts himself at a risk of criminal prosecution under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

Please respond to this letter within 7 working days (by Tuesday the 6th of August 2013) or call me on xxx to discuss this matter. After we have agreed on the full refund I am willing to make my way to the shop again and return the faulty item for the refund. I do not require you to cover my travel expenses at this point.
Should we not come to the agreement, I will have no choice but to file the claim at a Small Claim Court and claim all additional expenses in this case on top of the price paid for the jacket.

 

[Meduza]

I just want to thank you, Witch consumer, for help.
Today I got the refund. FULL. No hassle.

Feels like Christmas

 

[Witch consumer]

Well done that's a great result, thanks for letting us know, that's why we're here, it's so satisfying when someone gets a result!

 

[Lisaharris]

We are working in the leather industry, We are selling celebrity replica jackets, Now we have shearling bomber fur jacket for our customers.