im currently being threatened with court for cancelling outside of 7 days when it should be 14 days! They say they aren't in breach because conservatorys are bespoke but it doesn't state bespoke in the contract therefore they are in breach ... The regional sales manager phones me trying to force me into keeping the order and the solicitor keeps sending threats. Following Cougars msgs I've written to the CEO and had a letter to say it's been passed on and I will get a reply in 5 days. The sales rep was in our house 6hrs!!! And didn't even say it was a contract and it says purchase order nothing about a contract until the tiniest print at the bottom of the page. How's everyone else's threats gone?
Anglian Windows - Breach of Contract
- Thread starter k1980
- Start date
Hi Jogep
Put in writing you are cancelling your request to purchase a Conservatory from them.
DO NOT sign anything, especially "Variation of Contracts" or allow a survey.
They have not accepted your purchase order until they approve it, read clause 4 & 5.
Walk away
They have nothing to sue you for as far as i see .........
Put in writing you are cancelling your request to purchase a Conservatory from them.
DO NOT sign anything, especially "Variation of Contracts" or allow a survey.
They have not accepted your purchase order until they approve it, read clause 4 & 5.
Walk away
They have nothing to sue you for as far as i see .........
What's a variation of contract? Ive only signed one thing when the sales rep was here - due to my husband working away they did the survey within 7 days because they wanted it done before he went but the rep said there are two surveys but turns out the second isn't a surgery it's an installation visit (misled on that too!) however we do have it in writing that they won't start fabricating the order until after the installation visit which hasn't happened. So angry at how we've been misled. I'm normally so carful and don't sign on the spot but with a newborn and 6hrs later it got to the 'whatever and F off point'
I don't knkw if they're bluffing - they must know that the courts won't like their hard and miss leading sales
I don't knkw if they're bluffing - they must know that the courts won't like their hard and miss leading sales
Hey Girl,
Stay Calm!
Put in writing your purchase order cancellation and tell them to go away and not harass you any more. You have signed under duress and do not want their product.
Contact a local conservatory company who thrives on reputation and ask for recommendations and call their past clients.
GET OUT NOW!
Stay Calm!
Put in writing your purchase order cancellation and tell them to go away and not harass you any more. You have signed under duress and do not want their product.
Contact a local conservatory company who thrives on reputation and ask for recommendations and call their past clients.
GET OUT NOW!
I think this variation of contract was signed on the survey.
I have written to them numerous times to cancel and each time I get a letter back saying basically keep the order, pay £8000 or it'll go to court so each time I refuse the first two and I again get the same threat. I now await to see what mr motters head replies. What does he seem to be like?
I've already had work start with a local company who are fantastic! No dramas at all
I have written to them numerous times to cancel and each time I get a letter back saying basically keep the order, pay £8000 or it'll go to court so each time I refuse the first two and I again get the same threat. I now await to see what mr motters head replies. What does he seem to be like?
I've already had work start with a local company who are fantastic! No dramas at all
Study the forum, no one has gone to court as far as i can tell?
They may try and frighten you with threats or even a small claim but if that's the way they treat customers you can see its better to keep away.
Make a claim now for your deposit back gov.uk/make-money-claim-online which they will drag on forever.
They may try and frighten you with threats or even a small claim but if that's the way they treat customers you can see its better to keep away.
Make a claim now for your deposit back gov.uk/make-money-claim-online which they will drag on forever.
I'm a bit worried of it going to small claims as I'd have to pay legal fees unless it's covered by my home insurance.
Does the CEO seem to help or does he have the same attitude as everyone else. I'm so annoyed we ever went to them they are a nightmare. Oh well I can only stand my ground and argue my case which I know I have a good one. When I spoke to a solicitor he wasn't surprised when I said their name which speaks volumes. Thanks for your msgs!
Does the CEO seem to help or does he have the same attitude as everyone else. I'm so annoyed we ever went to them they are a nightmare. Oh well I can only stand my ground and argue my case which I know I have a good one. When I spoke to a solicitor he wasn't surprised when I said their name which speaks volumes. Thanks for your msgs!
The CEO seems to detach himself from corresponding with the customer directly, so i would not hold out for any resolution there.
There a re no legal fee's so to speak of in small claims (if you represent your self).
Keep this forum informed ....... it helps others too!
There a re no legal fee's so to speak of in small claims (if you represent your self).
Keep this forum informed ....... it helps others too!
Thank you for your advice
I will keep in touch when I hear anything else. I've had a lot of advice from solicitors and consumer direct so could represent myself but didn't know whether I would have a better chance with a solicitor. I'll see how far it goes first
I will keep in touch when I hear anything else. I've had a lot of advice from solicitors and consumer direct so could represent myself but didn't know whether I would have a better chance with a solicitor. I'll see how far it goes first
I read these last few threads with personal experience.
I signed a contract for a conservatory in October 2014 and paid a £500 deposit. The salesman clearly stated that I had a 14 day cooling off period. On this basis, and my understanding of Consumer Rights 2013 (which came into effect Jun 14) I believed him. 10 days later I realised the item was unaffordable so I cancelled the contract. I noted when i cancelled the contract that the cooling off period was 7 days, however the printed form was dated May 14 (at the bottom) so i assumed that the 14 days quoted by the salesman was still valid as I believe they obviously have not got around to updating their forms to the new legislation.
Anglian came back and said that I owed them £11500 for breach of contract. I said that the salesman had told me it was a 14 day cooling off so I should be able to cancel. They said I had a 7 day contractural cooling off, not 14 days. I said the Consumer Rights legislation says I have 14 days. They said the conservatory is bespoke and therefore does not come under this legislation. I responded with the legislation does not say anywhere the terms 'bespoke'. It does state 'contract made to the consumer requirements' but Anglian have not captured my requirement as they have not done a survey. They responded of a breakdown of the £11500 consisting of manager and salesman bonus and loss of profit which they said they were entitled to claim. I responded that the Implementing Guidance to the new legislation published by the government in December 2013(you can google this), states that conservatories are subject to the legislation. Anglian said they do not see it that way.
I am part way through court proceedings; they have served me for the 25% of the contract and we are looking for a court appearance in Oct. As its over £10K I cannot do small claims. I have sought Citizens Advice and they are in my favour (though this new legislation has not been tried in court yet).
I have made a complaint to the Glazing and Glass Federation(GGF) who said 'the company is entitled to claim loss of profit' if there is a breach of contract, totally over looking the fact I was mis-sold the contract in the first place.
I have made a complaint to the Ombudsman and I am now looking for other avenues of leverage. Any hints and tips gladly received.
I will keep in touch when I hear anything else. I've had a lot of advice from solicitors and consumer direct so could represent myself but didn't know whether I would have a better chance with a solicitor. I'll see how far it goes first
I read these last few threads with personal experience.
I signed a contract for a conservatory in October 2014 and paid a £500 deposit. The salesman clearly stated that I had a 14 day cooling off period. On this basis, and my understanding of Consumer Rights 2013 (which came into effect Jun 14) I believed him. 10 days later I realised the item was unaffordable so I cancelled the contract. I noted when i cancelled the contract that the cooling off period was 7 days, however the printed form was dated May 14 (at the bottom) so i assumed that the 14 days quoted by the salesman was still valid as I believe they obviously have not got around to updating their forms to the new legislation.
Anglian came back and said that I owed them £11500 for breach of contract. I said that the salesman had told me it was a 14 day cooling off so I should be able to cancel. They said I had a 7 day contractural cooling off, not 14 days. I said the Consumer Rights legislation says I have 14 days. They said the conservatory is bespoke and therefore does not come under this legislation. I responded with the legislation does not say anywhere the terms 'bespoke'. It does state 'contract made to the consumer requirements' but Anglian have not captured my requirement as they have not done a survey. They responded of a breakdown of the £11500 consisting of manager and salesman bonus and loss of profit which they said they were entitled to claim. I responded that the Implementing Guidance to the new legislation published by the government in December 2013(you can google this), states that conservatories are subject to the legislation. Anglian said they do not see it that way.
I am part way through court proceedings; they have served me for the 25% of the contract and we are looking for a court appearance in Oct. As its over £10K I cannot do small claims. I have sought Citizens Advice and they are in my favour (though this new legislation has not been tried in court yet).
I have made a complaint to the Glazing and Glass Federation(GGF) who said 'the company is entitled to claim loss of profit' if there is a breach of contract, totally over looking the fact I was mis-sold the contract in the first place. I have complained to the Ombudsman. Do you have any further advice in your experience??
I read these last few threads with personal experience.
I signed a contract for a conservatory in October 2014 and paid a £500 deposit. The salesman clearly stated that I had a 14 day cooling off period. On this basis, and my understanding of Consumer Rights 2013 (which came into effect Jun 14) I believed him. 10 days later I realised the item was unaffordable so I cancelled the contract. I noted when i cancelled the contract that the cooling off period was 7 days, however the printed form was dated May 14 (at the bottom) so i assumed that the 14 days quoted by the salesman was still valid as I believe they obviously have not got around to updating their forms to the new legislation.
Anglian came back and said that I owed them £11500 for breach of contract. I said that the salesman had told me it was a 14 day cooling off so I should be able to cancel. They said I had a 7 day contractural cooling off, not 14 days. I said the Consumer Rights legislation says I have 14 days. They said the conservatory is bespoke and therefore does not come under this legislation. I responded with the legislation does not say anywhere the terms 'bespoke'. It does state 'contract made to the consumer requirements' but Anglian have not captured my requirement as they have not done a survey. They responded of a breakdown of the £11500 consisting of manager and salesman bonus and loss of profit which they said they were entitled to claim. I responded that the Implementing Guidance to the new legislation published by the government in December 2013(you can google this), states that conservatories are subject to the legislation. Anglian said they do not see it that way.
I am part way through court proceedings; they have served me for the 25% of the contract and we are looking for a court appearance in Oct. As its over £10K I cannot do small claims. I have sought Citizens Advice and they are in my favour (though this new legislation has not been tried in court yet).
I have made a complaint to the Glazing and Glass Federation(GGF) who said 'the company is entitled to claim loss of profit' if there is a breach of contract, totally over looking the fact I was mis-sold the contract in the first place. Does anyone have hints tips or further experiences to help?
I signed a contract for a conservatory in October 2014 and paid a £500 deposit. The salesman clearly stated that I had a 14 day cooling off period. On this basis, and my understanding of Consumer Rights 2013 (which came into effect Jun 14) I believed him. 10 days later I realised the item was unaffordable so I cancelled the contract. I noted when i cancelled the contract that the cooling off period was 7 days, however the printed form was dated May 14 (at the bottom) so i assumed that the 14 days quoted by the salesman was still valid as I believe they obviously have not got around to updating their forms to the new legislation.
Anglian came back and said that I owed them £11500 for breach of contract. I said that the salesman had told me it was a 14 day cooling off so I should be able to cancel. They said I had a 7 day contractural cooling off, not 14 days. I said the Consumer Rights legislation says I have 14 days. They said the conservatory is bespoke and therefore does not come under this legislation. I responded with the legislation does not say anywhere the terms 'bespoke'. It does state 'contract made to the consumer requirements' but Anglian have not captured my requirement as they have not done a survey. They responded of a breakdown of the £11500 consisting of manager and salesman bonus and loss of profit which they said they were entitled to claim. I responded that the Implementing Guidance to the new legislation published by the government in December 2013(you can google this), states that conservatories are subject to the legislation. Anglian said they do not see it that way.
I am part way through court proceedings; they have served me for the 25% of the contract and we are looking for a court appearance in Oct. As its over £10K I cannot do small claims. I have sought Citizens Advice and they are in my favour (though this new legislation has not been tried in court yet).
I have made a complaint to the Glazing and Glass Federation(GGF) who said 'the company is entitled to claim loss of profit' if there is a breach of contract, totally over looking the fact I was mis-sold the contract in the first place. Does anyone have hints tips or further experiences to help?
Hi kitten master
Sorry to hear your problems! Our issue is exactly the same as yours! They say they are exempt from the 14 days cooling off because it's bespoke but it has to state bespoke and it doesn't. they have asked me not to contact them again and they are taking us to small claims court however I am yet to hear anything. Have you had any paper work from the court yet? I can't see how they think they have a case if I'm honest. I'm doing the same and representing myself as I've had a lot of legal advice and am not prepared to pay when I'm not going to get my money back ... Win or loose!
I'm not going to worry about it
Until it happens... If it happens. The regional sales manager called me again trying to force the sale back to us so it's obvious they are pushy and I'll use this in my evidence.
Try not
To worry
wow Kitten
this sounds like a pain in the back...
they can claim loss of profit however unless they have actually put stuff on site and started to work then this will be minimal admin costs
had they sent you an appointment date or start date?
they are also subject to selling at your home if they did which i am pretty sure is 14 days as well. if you cancelled in writing and followed the cancellation procedure then however they see it you have a 14 day cooling off period and it is their own fault for starting any work before this cooling off period.
in my situation with drains and gutters there was no argument and after letters they have confirmed i even get my deposit back but will not be holding my breath for that
stand up and dont be bullied by this i will have a read about bespoke items, as far as i know bespoke will require pre-contractual information in detail
good luck
this sounds like a pain in the back...
they can claim loss of profit however unless they have actually put stuff on site and started to work then this will be minimal admin costs
had they sent you an appointment date or start date?
they are also subject to selling at your home if they did which i am pretty sure is 14 days as well. if you cancelled in writing and followed the cancellation procedure then however they see it you have a 14 day cooling off period and it is their own fault for starting any work before this cooling off period.
in my situation with drains and gutters there was no argument and after letters they have confirmed i even get my deposit back but will not be holding my breath for that
stand up and dont be bullied by this i will have a read about bespoke items, as far as i know bespoke will require pre-contractual information in detail
good luck
Hi everyone, thanks for responding so quickly!
Anglian have opened a case in the County Court Money Claims Centre, I had to respond to the court with an Acknowledgement of Service. I am now completing the second phase of paperwork with an allocation to the Fast Track (because its above the small claims amount). So, at this moment they are taking me to court.
I am regularly researching the net for info; and again I find this info on the Competition and Markets Authority webpage.
.gov.uk/doorstep-selling-regulations
Unfortunately it wont apply to those people having issues with double glazing, but it specifically mentions conservatories.
To go into greater details:
The salesman said 14 days cooling off so I felt happy to sign the contract and give £500 deposit.
The delivery date for conservatory was 12-16 weeks.
There was no survey carried out.
I cancelled after 10 days.
Anglian said I only had 7 days in the contract (they actually said I had no cancellation rights as it was bespoke, but they provided a 7 day contractual cancellation as they are members of the GGF).
So, I will now revisit GGF to complain, also visit the CMA and complain to them as well, as this is stated in the legislation.
Heres a link to the implementing guidance as well if you want to read that about cancellations.
.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/310044/bis-13-1368-consumer-contracts-information-cancellation-and-additional-payments-regulations-guidance.pdf
I will see where this goes; and keep you updated.
Anglian have opened a case in the County Court Money Claims Centre, I had to respond to the court with an Acknowledgement of Service. I am now completing the second phase of paperwork with an allocation to the Fast Track (because its above the small claims amount). So, at this moment they are taking me to court.
I am regularly researching the net for info; and again I find this info on the Competition and Markets Authority webpage.
.gov.uk/doorstep-selling-regulations
Unfortunately it wont apply to those people having issues with double glazing, but it specifically mentions conservatories.
To go into greater details:
The salesman said 14 days cooling off so I felt happy to sign the contract and give £500 deposit.
The delivery date for conservatory was 12-16 weeks.
There was no survey carried out.
I cancelled after 10 days.
Anglian said I only had 7 days in the contract (they actually said I had no cancellation rights as it was bespoke, but they provided a 7 day contractual cancellation as they are members of the GGF).
So, I will now revisit GGF to complain, also visit the CMA and complain to them as well, as this is stated in the legislation.
Heres a link to the implementing guidance as well if you want to read that about cancellations.
.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/310044/bis-13-1368-consumer-contracts-information-cancellation-and-additional-payments-regulations-guidance.pdf
I will see where this goes; and keep you updated.
I looked on the door step selling link you posted but it states that conservatories are an exception to the 14 days cooking of period.
Basically consumer direct have told us that if they class a conservatory as bespoke then the contract must state it is bespoke and therefore a cooling off period doesn't apply or is less than the standard 14 days. I cannot find anywhere in our contract where it states bespoke so that's my argument. Prove its bespoke because I haven't asked for certain sized windows or frames I've just said the rough size I want the build.
Basically we didn't realise the sales order was a contract and signed it so he would go - was in our house 5 hours. We had a two week old baby and a 6 year old to collect from school. My husband works overseas so the following week a survey was done and he returned to work. I felt I didn't have time to have another quote done if they took that long so when he returned from work two months later we got another quote which was £7000 less than anglians. Not realising we had signed a legally binding contract we went through with the other and cancelled with Anglian. We then got a breach of contract letter. Through speaking with consumer direct they've confirmed that a 14 day cooling off period should have been given and as it wasn't we automatically get 12 months & 14 days too cool so therefore we haven't cancelled outside of the cooling off period (legally) Anglian are arguing that because it's bespoke they don't have to give 14 days so I called consumer direct who confirmed that the contract must state bespoke which it doesn't so we are still within our rights to cancel. We've had rude and arrogant phone calls from the regional manager he even phoned me again the other day threatening court action if I didn't change my mind about cancelling when their solicitor is already involved so I have no idea why he's still threatening over the phone. I wrote to the CEO who basically just passed my complaint to the person already dealing with it. On Saturday we received the small claims paper work so we are now writing our defence to return within 14 days as we certainly aren't accepting to pay the money. We've stated that we will pay the survey less the deposit paid. It could still be then trying to force the sale or money out of us because they still don't have to proceed even when we return the paper work to the county court. Looking at our defence and the bullying behaviour they have towards us I'd be surprised if they let it go to court. Will soon find out.
Basically consumer direct have told us that if they class a conservatory as bespoke then the contract must state it is bespoke and therefore a cooling off period doesn't apply or is less than the standard 14 days. I cannot find anywhere in our contract where it states bespoke so that's my argument. Prove its bespoke because I haven't asked for certain sized windows or frames I've just said the rough size I want the build.
Basically we didn't realise the sales order was a contract and signed it so he would go - was in our house 5 hours. We had a two week old baby and a 6 year old to collect from school. My husband works overseas so the following week a survey was done and he returned to work. I felt I didn't have time to have another quote done if they took that long so when he returned from work two months later we got another quote which was £7000 less than anglians. Not realising we had signed a legally binding contract we went through with the other and cancelled with Anglian. We then got a breach of contract letter. Through speaking with consumer direct they've confirmed that a 14 day cooling off period should have been given and as it wasn't we automatically get 12 months & 14 days too cool so therefore we haven't cancelled outside of the cooling off period (legally) Anglian are arguing that because it's bespoke they don't have to give 14 days so I called consumer direct who confirmed that the contract must state bespoke which it doesn't so we are still within our rights to cancel. We've had rude and arrogant phone calls from the regional manager he even phoned me again the other day threatening court action if I didn't change my mind about cancelling when their solicitor is already involved so I have no idea why he's still threatening over the phone. I wrote to the CEO who basically just passed my complaint to the person already dealing with it. On Saturday we received the small claims paper work so we are now writing our defence to return within 14 days as we certainly aren't accepting to pay the money. We've stated that we will pay the survey less the deposit paid. It could still be then trying to force the sale or money out of us because they still don't have to proceed even when we return the paper work to the county court. Looking at our defence and the bullying behaviour they have towards us I'd be surprised if they let it go to court. Will soon find out.
Hi! Thanks Jogep for contributing, and hope that this issue gets resolved for everyone.
If you look in the doorstep regulations, and in the Implementing Guidance to the regulations, its says conservatories are subject to the legislation, so 14 days should apply. And it doesn't differentiate between normal conservatories or bespoke...it simply says conservatories. I wouldn't look for support for double glazing issues against these regulations, but for conservatories or building improvements, its a clear indication I am entitled to 14 days cooling off.
I've taken the Exceptions quote from the gov.uk website verbatim and pasted it here:
Exceptions
These rules don’t apply to:
* financial services eg mortgages, pensions, insurance
* contracts for the construction of new houses and flats, sale or rental of property (but they do apply to estate agents’ marketing services, extensions, patios, conservatories or driveways and to repairs, refurbishment and improvement of property)
* contracts for food and drink supplied by regular roundsmen, like a milkman
* contracts worth £42 or less
So in the second bullet point, its says that the rules DO apply to extensions and conservatories (within the brackets). So thats a valid point as defence.
I agree with your second point; the contract does not say anywhere that the conservatory is bespoke, and salesman did not say that it would be a bespoke item, so I'm entitled to 14 days cooling off.
Furthermore, I have emailed the GGF 3 times over the last 10 days with my issue (there is an easy way to contact them on their website so I urge everyone to do it) but they have not responded.
Thanks everyone!
If you look in the doorstep regulations, and in the Implementing Guidance to the regulations, its says conservatories are subject to the legislation, so 14 days should apply. And it doesn't differentiate between normal conservatories or bespoke...it simply says conservatories. I wouldn't look for support for double glazing issues against these regulations, but for conservatories or building improvements, its a clear indication I am entitled to 14 days cooling off.
I've taken the Exceptions quote from the gov.uk website verbatim and pasted it here:
Exceptions
These rules don’t apply to:
* financial services eg mortgages, pensions, insurance
* contracts for the construction of new houses and flats, sale or rental of property (but they do apply to estate agents’ marketing services, extensions, patios, conservatories or driveways and to repairs, refurbishment and improvement of property)
* contracts for food and drink supplied by regular roundsmen, like a milkman
* contracts worth £42 or less
So in the second bullet point, its says that the rules DO apply to extensions and conservatories (within the brackets). So thats a valid point as defence.
I agree with your second point; the contract does not say anywhere that the conservatory is bespoke, and salesman did not say that it would be a bespoke item, so I'm entitled to 14 days cooling off.
Furthermore, I have emailed the GGF 3 times over the last 10 days with my issue (there is an easy way to contact them on their website so I urge everyone to do it) but they have not responded.
Thanks everyone!
I should have looked at this forum BEFORE I placed an order! It's all very well after the event. I ordered 3 windows they were due to be installed last week. My tenant who is a good friend and family member, took time off work to be there. At the last minute they cancelled saying the previous day's work had "overrun"! OK, we forgave them. She took time off work again today and around 10am they rang to say they'd broken down and couldn't come. She asked, surely they could get another vehicle...the answer was as you can imagine, NO. I rang HQ and said we would have to cancel the order as they had broken their agreement twice now and it was costing my tenant money and also myself as I too had to rearrange my days. I was told I couldn't cancel unless I paid £80 Cancellation fee but it's not my fault, it's their fault. Can we claim loss of wages?
Thank you for your comments. They can install the windows but I will take them to the small claims court for work days lost. They are not likely to contest it.