Anglian Windows - Breach of Contract

[Jogep]

Anyone having issues with Anglian
BBC1
Don't get done get Dom
Was on Monday but it's on Iplayer catch up

 

[Hoges]

I looked on the door step selling link you posted but it states that conservatories are an exception to the 14 days cooking of period.

Basically consumer direct have told us that if they class a conservatory as bespoke then the contract must state it is bespoke and therefore a cooling off period doesn't apply or is less than the standard 14 days. I cannot find anywhere in our contract where it states bespoke so that's my argument. Prove its bespoke because I haven't asked for certain sized windows or frames I've just said the rough size I want the build.

Basically we didn't realise the sales order was a contract and signed it so he would go - was in our house 5 hours. We had a two week old baby and a 6 year old to collect from school. My husband works overseas so the following week a survey was done and he returned to work. I felt I didn't have time to have another quote done if they took that long so when he returned from work two months later we got another quote which was £7000 less than anglians. Not realising we had signed a legally binding contract we went through with the other and cancelled with Anglian. We then got a breach of contract letter. Through speaking with consumer direct they've confirmed that a 14 day cooling off period should have been given and as it wasn't we automatically get 12 months & 14 days too cool so therefore we haven't cancelled outside of the cooling off period (legally) Anglian are arguing that because it's bespoke they don't have to give 14 days so I called consumer direct who confirmed that the contract must state bespoke which it doesn't so we are still within our rights to cancel. We've had rude and arrogant phone calls from the regional manager he even phoned me again the other day threatening court action if I didn't change my mind about cancelling when their solicitor is already involved so I have no idea why he's still threatening over the phone. I wrote to the CEO who basically just passed my complaint to the person already dealing with it. On Saturday we received the small claims paper work so we are now writing our defence to return within 14 days as we certainly aren't accepting to pay the money. We've stated that we will pay the survey less the deposit paid. It could still be then trying to force the sale or money out of us because they still don't have to proceed even when we return the paper work to the county court. Looking at our defence and the bullying behaviour they have towards us I'd be surprised if they let it go to court. Will soon find out.

I am so pleased to have found this forum as I am in court against Anglian on Monday ! Very similar scenario to Jogep- cancelled outside 7 and 14 days and after survey but gave 3.5 months notice so they had not even started manufacture. We offered to pay out of pocket exps and admin fee but they want £5500, for basically doing nothing , so say to cover loss of profit, salesmen commission, etc. Advice from CAB same as above - should have been given 14 days and and so now have up to a year to legally cancel. Also contract should say item is bespoke but How can an item be bespoke if it has not been made? claiming 20% loss of profit is obscene given they had so much notice prior to build date and had plenty of opportunity to mitigate loss. Commission to salesmen will not be paid until sale completed so this charge is nonsense.
I will let you know how I get on. No precedent has been set yet as far as I am aware but if you know of any judgements please let me know !

 

[Jogep]

It is shocking and I honestly cannot believe they think they would win these cases and I hope that they don't. Goodluck for Monday and if you wouldn't mind letting me know how it turns out that would be great.

 

[Hoges]

I am sorry to report to everyone that I lost my case today. The judge upheld the decision that a conservatory is bespoke, even if it has not started being made, and therefore conservatory contracts are exempt from cancellation rights. I am furious as in effect they are saying that any vulnerable person could sign a conservatory contract in their home and they have absolutely no right to cancel nor cooling off period. Surely this can't be right and surely the intention of the new regulations was not to put the consumer in a worse position when agreeing contracts in their own home. The new regs have effectively removed all cancellation rights for double glazing salesmen / conservatory salesmen- precisely the type of industry the regulations were originally bought in for. I have reported them to watchdog and updated the CAB, but I probably now have to go away, lick my wounds and pay up!

 

[Jogep]

So sorry to hear that! Can't believe you can be expected to pay that.
Did you put in your argument? We've had a letter stating they want a mediation ?

 

[Hoges]

I would go for mediation ! They are like a machine , chew you up and spit you out ! Sent a barrister from London and the area manager . Very intimidating, I didn't really stand a chance

 

[Jogep]

The letter states that should it go to court it would be their solicitor but they've said they would like a mediation. Did they not offer you mediation?

 

[Hoges]

The letter states that should it go to court it would be their solicitor but they've said they would like a mediation. Did they not offer you mediation?

No unfortunately not. I would suggest you dont take a chance. I have reported them to watchdog but it may be too late for you!

 

[Jogep]

I can't change what the outcome will be but am certainly not backing down - I am intrigued as to what they'd like to mediate as we have already tried. The letter also stated about a hearing so I am confused but they've Defo stated mediation.
Surely you can't be expected to pay the money in one payment?

 

[Hoges]

Thinking about it It's probably as the claim against you is above the all claims court limit so it will cost them much more to take you to court. Good luck

 

[Jogep]

Maybe although it is less than £10,000 which is the small claims limit. The regional manager was extremely rude to me on the phone and has phoned me since court proceedings are going through trying to get me to keep the order - my husband works overseas and I have a newborn so it's obvious they are trying
To bully me as they know I'm on my own. This behaviour gets frowned upon in court so maybe they think they've been too heavy to be able to push it further. Who knows at the moment. I suppose every case is different and depends on the Anglian representative and judge on the day.

 

[Cougar1]

Sorry Hoges to hear you lost the case.

I see Anglian Windows are now taking 90 year old widows to court

We too are going to court, we are not backing down either.

This is clearly extortion and we all need to work together to stop this practice

 

[Jogep]

Cougar, did you have a mediation in the end?
You'd think the courts would see how they are treating people by having so many cases to deal with. It states on our papers that we only have their solicitor attending if it goes to court hearing.

 

[Hoges]

thanks cougar1 - yes I am still really very annoyed. It was a very unfair case, they had their hot shot barrister from London against me and the judge only received the papers 15 mins before we went in and isn't a consumer expert, unlike their barrister. I think a lot boiled down to what happened in court, but what I did learn was that it doesn't matter how unfair we think they are being, they argue a strong legal case which as normal laypersons we don't have the experience to counter argue. Basically yesterday the judge agreed that double glazing and conservatory salesmen can go into someones house, sell their products and a they are "bespoke" they don't have to offer any cooling off period what so ever Obviously we are lucky because Anglian are such a caring company they offer 7 days but they don't have to!So now in essence the new regs apparently say a salesmen could go into a vulnerable persons house ,flog a conservatory , and they have absolutely no right to change their mind. I pointed out to the judge this could not have been the intention of the new regulations but it fell on deaf ears.......I am going to write to my MP, parliament, the CEO etc, etc but the most frustrating thing is not having a loud enough voice. It wont help me now but I feel very strongly other should be protected.
BTW the judge also said that my conservatory became bespoke the moment I ordered it, never mind the fact they hadn't lifted one pane of glass!

 

[Cougar1]

Hi Hoges and Jogep

They talked of mediation but no action.

Going to court seems the only way, i am going to ask the press to attend so they can experience first hand, and if allowed video for You Tube.

Please post as much information as possible about the court proceedings this all helps. At least we know their tactic of a Barrister, less intimidating when you know. I too have posted Watch Dog.

We have to be smarter

Trust me if we win the world will know!

 

[Jogep]

I can understand why you're so deflated about this. It really isn't fair. How comes their solicitor wasn't at the hearing and why were they able to choose which judge they use? Kinder sounds like a set up so they get the outcome they want! They told me that they always request a mediation first so I wonder why you didn't get this offer? It really is unfair that consumers do not get certain rights. I thought that the law was becoming stricter with this. The contract should state bespoke and if not we should be able to argue that it is not. Eg if you go into B&Q and order a kitchen the units are standard - not a bespoke kitchen however they could class this as bespoke once you choose which you would have in your kitchen (but they don't!) the same with a conservatory... The panes of glass and frames are standard for all but the amount you have will depend on the size you want and the layout of your house etc... Is that bespoke or not? I wouldn't say so! The fact of the matter is that we as consumers aren't to know what's bespoke and what's not and what cooling
Off period this would give in either scenario. I think Anglian realise how this regulation suits them and have worked out that they can make thousands by pushing
People into orders knowing they will cancel and knowing that they can take the individuals to court to get the money! Esp if they're using a certain Barrister... I didn't think they could choose who they have at a hearing but if they can that's certainly a very unfair case!

 

[Hoges]

Hi Hoges and Jogep

They talked of mediation but no action.

Going to court seems the only way, i am going to ask the press to attend so they can experience first hand, and if allowed video for You Tube.

Please post as much information as possible about the court proceedings this all helps. At least we know their tactic of a Barrister, less intimidating when you know. I too have posted Watch Dog.

We have to be smarter

Trust me if we win the world will know!

I will post as much about the case as I can but have to dash off now. My only consolation is it must have cost them an absolute fortune to pay for the barrister. If you get the media involved I will come down to the court and tell my story too!

 

[Jogep]

Cougar, when you say they talked of mediation but no action and therefore it is now going
To court? Did they state on court papers that they wanted a mediation? Do you know why this did not go ahead? I will also report to watchdog

 

[Cougar1]

Hi Jogep

We have counter sued, so we are taking action against Anglian Windows and not just defending an apparent unfair claim.

We are claiming the deposit back plus interest from the date we filed (8%)

Hi Hoges

If it really seems unfair, it would be interesting to find out if you can appeal and ask for a new hearing within the small claims system

 

[Jogep]

Oh ok so they wanted the mediation and you've refused it?
Be interesting to see what they would have said in the mediation, will keep you all posted with what happens with us.