Anglian Windows - Breach of Contract

Cougar1

New Member
Nov 2, 2014
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Hi Jogep

Not so much refused we didn't pursue.

Anglian Windows have not been forthcoming with a basis to their claim.

We have informed the courts that during this discovery period we still have no justification from Anglian Windows to back up their claim

We cannot defend a claim when we don't know what it is they are claiming other than breach of contract. Its an arduous task.

We decided not to wait and counter sued giving a full basis to our claim. I suspect they will with hold to the last minute then spring it on us so we have no time to prepare a defense. Meditation would be no different.

No question tho, this forum has been very helpful.
 

Cougar1

New Member
Nov 2, 2014
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" BAIT & SWITCH or BAIT & SUE"

The BAIT

The Salesman is sent in to bait and close the customer (No commission unless order signed on first visit).

The SWITCH

Now Anglian decides what can be sold and switches the customer using Bully Tactics and the VOC "Variation of Contract".

If the Switch Later Fails

THE SUE

If the sale falls over then Sue the customer for 30% of the SALE.
 

Jogep

New Member
Apr 8, 2015
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Are you still having problems? Or have they Laid off?
I've not heard from them directly only through court paper work.
I am intrigued as to how far they take this




" BAIT & SWITCH or BAIT & SUE"

The BAIT

The Salesman is sent in to bait and close the customer (No commission unless order signed on first visit).

The SWITCH

Now Anglian decides what can be sold and switches the customer using Bully Tactics and the VOC "Variation of Contract".

If the Switch Later Fails

THE SUE

If the sale falls over then Sue the customer for 30% of the SALE.
 

kittenmaster

New Member
Apr 21, 2015
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This thread has filled me with dread. I cancelled after 7 days but before 14 days. Theyre taking me to fast track court for £11500. I see on the governmental websites that conservatories are subject to the 14 day cancellation so i feel confident. But if the judge ruled that conservatories are bespoke then i can now only go on the aspect of misselling where the salesman lied to me and didnt inform me of my cancellation rights. :mad:
 

Jogep

New Member
Apr 8, 2015
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I've had a lot of legal advice to confirm that we are not in breach however it is down to the judges discretion. What I have been told by a solicitor is that 1) he's had numerous people going to him about Anglian but only 1 ever went to court. 2) if an item is bespoke then this must be stated in the contract which it is not. How do we know it's bespoke? Yes all conservatories differ as houses are different however as far as we know they could be using standard size frames and windows just less or more panels to make it fit. I've not asked for 'x' sized window panes I've just asked for a conservatory 'x' size!

If you went to B&Q and ordered work tops and units to fit your kitchen... You can return the units (possibly not the worktop depending if it was cut to fit) and receive a refund ... B&Q could say - sorry that's bespoke as it fits your kitchen so no refund but they don't because although it fits yours the units can be sold separately to someone else so what's the difference here? They're just standard sized frames and glass. We also have it in writing that they've not started making the frames so what difference does it make as to whether it's bespoke or not? We've cancelled, they've not made anything so they've not lost anything.

They've asked for a mediation which I'm happy to do but can't see where it'll get us - I'm more than happy for it to go to a hearing - small claims is pretty informal and I have a very good argument written up and will ensure that every issue is brought up and not brushed off!

I read our argument and wonder how Anglian think they can get away with this.... I wonder if it will ever go to a hearing or whether they pull out at last minute in the hope that the further it goes you'll be scared into paying. Just because you have paperwork from the court it doesn't mean it'll go... They can pull out
 

kittenmaster

New Member
Apr 21, 2015
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Hi
Well. It looks as though precedent has been set. With Hoges update in this forum that the judge ruled conservatories are bespoke. And judges rarely go against other judges rulings. Also if you have the same order form as me,there is a tick box on page 2 that says 'bespoke'. If thats ticked well.......its bespoke. Even though the salesman did not explain what that meant. My arguement is about miselling in the first instance. I was told I had 14 days cooling off. Thats why I signed the form. So, now my route is ombudsman,competitions and marketing authority,and somehow get the department of business innovation and skills involved as the policy owner. This is extremely stressful but our hearing is not until December. Let see what happens until then.
 

Jogep

New Member
Apr 8, 2015
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Just gone through my contract again and defo nothing about bespoke - not even a tick box. Strange why their contracts would differ if they assume all their products are bespoke
 

Hoges

New Member
May 12, 2015
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Hi
Well. It looks as though precedent has been set. With Hoges update in this forum that the judge ruled conservatories are bespoke. And judges rarely go against other judges rulings. Also if you have the same order form as me,there is a tick box on page 2 that says 'bespoke'. If thats ticked well.......its bespoke. Even though the salesman did not explain what that meant. My arguement is about miselling in the first instance. I was told I had 14 days cooling off. Thats why I signed the form. So, now my route is ombudsman,competitions and marketing authority,and somehow get the department of business innovation and skills involved as the policy owner. This is extremely stressful but our hearing is not until December. Let see what happens until then.
I recently got a reply from The Department of Business Skills and Innovation who wrote the guidelines as I wanted to clarify that basically customers ( many of whom are vulnerable) no longer have a cooling off period if they are sold double glazing / conservatories in their own home. All these products would be considered bespoke judging by my experience and therefore under the new rules they are saying the moment you sign the order form , legally you cant change your mind. The reply was just basically quoting the guidelines again, not saying much , but what they did say was "If the right to cancel does not apply, the trader is required to inform the consumer of this as part of the pre-contract information required by the CCRs". Anglian may get around this by saying they offer 7 days as a gesture of goodwill to their customers but I would suggest you also go down the route that their contract should state as the item is considered bespoke ( my contract made no reference to it being bespoke at all)the 14 day cancellation rights specified in the Consumer Contracts Regs 2013 do not apply.
 

Cougar1

New Member
Nov 2, 2014
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I think the Post by Hodges is interesting.

The salesman could not close if he had to tell the client they have no cancellation rights, so to get round this they don't tell you, but say you have 7 - 14 days.
This is in effect a deception as they mask the truth with statement of their own making.

IMO The sales man should say as should the Purchase Order

"BY LAW YOU HAVE NO CANCELLATION RIGHTS"

"Anglian Offers 7 - 14 days but you have no legal protection"

Anglian are using the law to enforce a signed agreement by not informing the customer of their legal rights (or lack of) i.e. misselling

Would the customer have signed if they had been made aware at the point of sale the Law, I doubt it.
 

kittenmaster

New Member
Apr 21, 2015
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I have also gone to the Dept of BIS asking for clarification. I said that if their Implementing Guidance to the new Cancellations legislation, their Cancellations legislation and the Doorstep Selling Regulations all say conservatories are subject to a 14 day cooling off, how can a judge rule that conservatories are not? So either they are wrong, or the judge is wrong in his interpretation. It does not differentiate between a bespoke or non-bespoke conservatory; its says 'conservatory'. so this to me means ALL conservatories. I admit it doesn't apply to double glazing, but I didn't order double glazing.
My order form is dated version May 14 which threw me as the new legislation came in Jun 14, and I signed order form in Oct 14 so the new legislation applies to my sale.
Yes, i agree on declaring cooling off periods. the salesman was quite specific, that I had a 14 day cooling off period. He did not say that I did not have any cancellation rights at all, so my next route is the Competitions and Marketing Authority. He didn't even say I had 7 days contractural cooling off. He said 14 days and left it at that. And i signed the order for on that premise, content that I had the time to peruse and review the contract at leisure. But according to other forums cancelling within the 7 day period doesn't seem to apply either to Anglian.
 

Boswell

New Member
Nov 16, 2015
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Hi,

After spending a few hours reading this forum, which I found enlightening, we too are subject to Anglian's "Breach of contract" and are being threatened with court action. We cancelled a contract with Anglian after the 7-days, but before the 14 days cooling of period for a porch. They then sent us a letter demanding 25% of the cost (£2200 ish). We have not had a survey completed and the porch is subject to planning permission, so for £2200 they have actually done nothing but spending 4 hours at our home and disputing the fact that they in-fact have not done anything.

We have spoken to CAB and Trading Standards regarding this who just basically quote the legislation, which is not much help. We do also have up our sleeve the additional help of the Federation of Small Businesses (FSB) who are giving us legal advice.

After many too'ing and fro'ing we receive a letter from a legal firm representing Anglian, to which we replied on advice by the FSB. They asked us to write to Anglian to explain why they believe that the porch is a bespoke product. We then received an email from Anglian's legal representatives with an attached letter direct from Anglain's own Company Solicitor, who stated that (and I quote) "the contract under which you have instructed us to provide you with goods and services is anything other than a contract for bespoke goods. The contract clearly refers to specific dimensions in relation to your requirement". - we also pointed out that clause (10) ‘Measurements made by the company's sales representatives are approximate and used only for the purposes of calculating the price’. - so they do not actually have the specific dimensions in relation to our requirement - no survey has been completed.

Now, after reading clause 2,3 and 4 in detail. The surveyor has to arrange an appointment within 14 days of the signing of the contract (clause 3), if you have had no surveyor, as in our case, then they themselves are in breach of contract after said period.

We also disputed clause 9(a), the 25% of the total cost as a penalty clause. According to the 'Guidance on unfair terms in home improvements contracts’ by the Office of Fair Trading 'It is unfair to impose excessive sanctions for a breach of contract. A contract term is a penalty if it requires a consumer to pay more in compensation for a breach of contract than a reasonable pre-estimate of the loss caused to the supplier. Under common law this type of term would normally be void as a penalty. Such terms deter consumers from exercising their right to cancel.’ . Their reply was that this has been upheld through small claims litigation as a genuine estimate of their losses.

We are now waiting for the legal documentation to come through as we dispute everything that they have claimed.

What I find interesting in our case is that, after instructing a law firm to act on Anglian's behalf, we then receive a letter direct from Anglian's Company Solicitor - this does obviously include that "we can still proceed with the contract" and "to keep costs down"- i.e. more sales pressure. The legal costs of a small claim cannot be passed on, only the court costs, which are minimal.

To me, this implies that the law firm has washed their hands of it and Anglian have taken it upon themselves to basically bully us into giving them some monies, or continue with the contract.


Thank you

Boswell
 

Cougar1

New Member
Nov 2, 2014
31
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Hi Boswell

Having been through this I would advise you counter sue for your deposit, there is minimal cost and this can be done on line as a small claim at your local county court. Do this before you do anything else.

They then have as much to lose as you and the writ is on their books.

Anglian must be in trouble to adopt these practices, keep these blogs alive!

As I read the blue size zero font paper work you are pressured to sign a purchase order which Anglian will decide if it becomes a contract after the survey has been done. (4a?) As there has been no survey, I question there is a contract and certainly no work has been done.

You don't want their product and you want your deposit back

Do not waste time reasoning with them, there actions are intentional and all part of the sales process, they are amused.

The commission only sales staff are pressured to get a signature at any cost. They are not employees and do not last long at Anglian. Once Anglian has a signature the extortion machine kicks in.

Buy locally, as your problems with Anglian Windows have only just begun, view the Watch Dog Video and be warned, get out while you can. You will still be financially better off with a local supplier as Anglian "Raise the Standard Price" to cover their expensive marketing.
 

davidgreenhalgh

New Member
Jan 25, 2016
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My 82 year old father has just found himself in the same position with Anglian having cancelled after 7 days but before 14. The position on the 'bespoke' issue seems to be completely unclear and the only way for it to be decided is for a County Court District Judge to make a ruling on it. I wondered if anyone who posted last year has now got that far and if so, what the judge decided?
 

SEGJ

New Member
Feb 9, 2016
1
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My 82 year old father has just found himself in the same position with Anglian having cancelled after 7 days but before 14. The position on the 'bespoke' issue seems to be completely unclear and the only way for it to be decided is for a County Court District Judge to make a ruling on it. I wondered if anyone who posted last year has now got that far and if so, what the judge decided?
Hi I recently had a court hearing with regards to cooling off, whether it was bespoke etc - sales rep in my house hours on end being pushy, court threats when cancelled, nasty phone calls and so on... It did go to court was pretty complicated however they won the case because ultimately I stupidly signed a co tract I should have read and would then have seen it was bespoke and so on... It'll take forever to go into details and everyone's case will differ but they take a whole handful of people, the hiss and snigger at you the whole way through, they make the whole thing as stressful as possible! They are a really nasty company and best to avoid!! Although we lost the case the judge dismissed it with nothing to pay as they failed to provide sufficient paper work with regards to costs which they were asked for beforehand and therefore we've not had anything to pay. They aren't the most organised of companies. I do hope it goes well for you. Went on well over a year for me so I'm just glad it's over!
 

xposay

New Member
Mar 28, 2015
10
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still recovering from our bruising with Anglian - windows not even fitted properly!!
If only people would realize (wish I had) that double glazing is same quality BS & EU standards- controlling quality etc
As long as company is FENSA member you have guarantee
Local contractors top WHICH report - they have reputation to care about!!
 

wellfedup

New Member
Mar 27, 2016
4
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hi - I am new on this site, having trouble with Anglian Home improvements, so interested to know if this has moved forward ?
 

xposay

New Member
Mar 28, 2015
10
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hi - I am new on this site, having trouble with Anglian Home improvements, so interested to know if this has moved forward ?
My horror story is historic- windows incorrectly fitted etc etc took several months to finish etc etc- Biggest mistake I have ever made was to choose Anlian Home Improvements -

Give outline of your problems and I will comment happily-
 

xposay

New Member
Mar 28, 2015
10
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Remember -

'Which' magazine- had high recommendations for using a local company .

Double Glazing has to meet certain UK & EU standards- local suppliers HAVE to abide by these standards.

ONLY Choose a FENSA registered company - that is where the 'Guarantee' is in effect 'Guaranteed'!!

So if your local company does go bust FENSA is there.

Only choose an Established local company.
Ask them for list/examples of local completed jobs.

NOTE think how many people actually make air their concerns on websites....
How many actually know they have had a bad job done????
 

wellfedup

New Member
Mar 27, 2016
4
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My horror story is historic- windows incorrectly fitted etc etc took several months to finish etc etc- Biggest mistake I have ever made was to choose Anlian Home Improvements -

Give outline of your problems and I will comment happily-
Ours is to do with a conservatory, half started, then planning didnt pass it and so work has stopped since a year. Anglian passed the case on to their legal dept, who in turn passed it to their external solicitors , each writing a load of crap every time.

Anglian are really sneaky and use the most underhand tactics, worthy of a tinpot dictator. Management seem to be clueless and without any backbone where customers are concerned.
Did you have to deal with their external solicitors as well ? Would like to know how it all got resolved please. thanks